Tip overlays

[Mad Max]

Got it 

[onetone]

The end serving makes a big difference in the shock and wear at the string nock. Larger serving tends to cushion.

[Mad Max]

The end serving makes a big difference in the shock and wear at the string nock. Larger serving tends to cushion.

When I posted this topic I was thinking in my head (what tip overlays for Flemish twist 10/12 strands of FF or D-97).

I have made endless loop strings for Siyah type bows and maybe a recurve or 2.
A pain in the bottom to get them looking good and stay that way after bracing and a few shots.
I have heard that African Blackwood will hold up to FF strings but I guess I should learn more about what will hold up to these strings. I could always add some B-50 to the loop also.

[Roy from Pa]

Mark

I've used FF string on a few of my BBO bows with the buffalo horn tips.

Even put a piece of wood overtop of the horn overlay a couple times.

Never had a bow break or string break at the tips.

[Pat B]

Mark, you can pad the loops with B-50 or B-55 to soften them a bit. It will add weight to the string though.

[Mad Max]

Yes roy I use Horn Buffalo/ sheep alot
Pat I don't really want to add anything to it

Basically I wanted to know what hard wood's and phenolic and so forth could be used.


Kirk I have used red or black Phenolic from Binghams or KennyM but I was thinking they all had whitish lines in them when you taper to zero, it's been a while since I've used it

[Roy from Pa]

Experiment on a scrap piece first.  Then if you like it just glue them on..

 

[kennym]

Mark, you can see the lines in linen phenolic a little.  Seems like I used a sharpie once to make them really black. Guess it soaked into the exposed linen?

[onetone]

The end serving makes a big difference in the shock and wear at the string nock. Larger serving tends to cushion.

When I posted this topic I was thinking in my head (what tip overlays for Flemish twist 10/12 strands of FF or D-97).

I have made endless loop strings for Siyah type bows and maybe a recurve or 2.
A pain in the bottom to get them looking good and stay that way after bracing and a few shots.
I have heard that African Blackwood will hold up to FF strings but I guess I should learn more about what will hold up to these strings. I could always add some B-50 to the loop also.

Realized you were probably referring to Flemish twist strings after I posted. Oh well … my bias came out as I make only endless loop strings.

[Crooked Stic]

The shape of the finish groove probably as important as the material used to reinforce it. A teardrop shape is the best in my opinion.

[bjansen]

The shape of the finish groove probably as important as the material used to reinforce it. A teardrop shape is the best in my opinion.

I agree This is the key!!!  In the bow I am building now I am simply using 1 layer of clear .040 fiberglass.

[Mad Max]

The shape of the finish groove probably as important as the material used to reinforce it. A teardrop shape is the best in my opinion.

I round them over and under towards the riser so I think I'm doing what your saying, that way the pressure is spread out. 

[BigJim]

Most of the damage I've seen in non fast flight bows is the string pulling down through the glass in to the string grove.. not actually cutting the tips off. Since the glass is all linier there, the addition of low stretch strings would put more force in to splitting the glass. A thicker string loop would certainly help in that case.

Micarta is a trade name and is all phenolic.. you know.. not all phenolic is Micarta, but all Micarta is phenolic.

G10 is technically a phenolic as well, but done with epoxy and fiberglass. Far superior in strength and lack of flexibility but can be hard on tools. Having said that, I find it far easier to file than typical phenolic. A very thin layer under any other material is all it would take to safe guard your tips.

When using antler, there are several things to consider when looking for trouble free overlays. I use moose exclusively because I can grind it very thin and get most of that pithy core ground off. I also soak it in acetone for a day or so to remove any fat that remains followed by a pre heat with a heat gun.. not so much to make it brittle. I then grind to a rough shape and thin to my desired size with 36 grit to give the glue something to hold to.

I no longer use CA glue to do any overlays as it leave a whiteish line and never trusted it for horn or antler anyway. I can't say that I've never had a problem with horn or antler, but at customer reqest, many thousands of bows (about 90%) get it and I can only recall problems with maybe 5 that were because of that media. Having said that, I'm sure it was more of a failure on my part than the antler itself. I also wouldn't consider it fast flight compatible on its own.. at least not for a glass bow.
BigJim

[Buggs]

Micarta is a trade name and is all phenolic.. you know.. not all phenolic is Micarta, but all Micarta is phenolic.

Actually, hardly any consumer goods are made with phenolic resin anymore. Phenolic's are made with formaldehyde
and its a known carcinogen. So if you get your hand on some real phenolic like Bakelite or something more modern, be very careful not to aspirate the crap!

[Kirkll]

The shape of the finish groove probably as important as the material used to reinforce it. A teardrop shape is the best in my opinion.

This is spot on… The depth of the string groove on the back of the limb can make a difference too.

You can purchase linen phenolic in 1/4” thickness if you like one solid color tip overlay. It’s pretty flexible for clamping it to a slightly curved limb tip.

I like to use several different colored layers so I can see the the shape of the groove depth as I’m filing it and get the tear drop shape centered perfectly. Rounding over the transition to the belly side of the limbs is important too.

 If you can see any sharp bends in your string after it’s strung, and it’s not holding the tear drop shape throughout the draw cycle, it’s going to wear on the string, and put pressure on the tip overlay unevenly.

Kirk

[Tim Finley]

Horn works great but antler no good  . Antler contracts and expands with humidity and temperature and will pop off no matter if you soak it in glue or grind it thin i even tried drilling tiny holes in the glue side with a dentist bit so the glue would pillar and they still popped off . I soaked them in ac etone to get the fat out no difference .
 I entered my shop one time when it was ten below zero and about 72 in my shop, I had been hunting, I unstung my longbow and both antler tips came off just from the temperature change .

[BigJim]

I don't know what we are doing differently Tim, but I just don't have the same experiences.  There are many other bowyers who also offer antler and must not be having much trouble.
Bigjim

[Kirkll]

Horn works great but antler no good  . Antler contracts and expands with humidity and temperature and will pop off no matter if you soak it in glue or grind it thin i even tried drilling tiny holes in the glue side with a dentist bit so the glue would pillar and they still popped off . I soaked them in ac etone to get the fat out no difference .
 I entered my shop one time when it was ten below zero and about 72 in my shop, I had been hunting, I unstung my longbow and both antler tips came off just from the temperature change .

I think my fingernails might just pop off with that much temp change.

Why on earth anyone would hunt in 10 below temps is beyond my comprehension.


  I gave up messing with antler tips years ago myself after too many pop offs happening using both epoxy and super glue. Horn looks cooler anyway.

What ever you are doing Jim, keep on doing it if it works for you.


  Kirk 

[Longcruise]

Why on earth anyone would hunt in 10 below temps is beyond my comprehension.

I hunted in -38f once.  That was and will remain the last time.   

[onetone]

Fished for salmon once when it was 20 below. Had to keep spraying our reels with de-icer. My dad was sort of a zealot and didn't seem to mind the cold.