Hunting with small Stone points

[trad_bowhunter1965]

All right Trad Gangers A couple weeks ago Gordon Jabben posted a photo of a tiny arrow point it got me thinking so post the your points you found out hunt and your opinion on if you think that small stone points were for small game or Natives American shot what they made. I live in California and found some points none any bigger that my thumb nail I also have friends that have huge collections and 75% are all small point.

[Gordon Jabben]

I found some pictures of the stone arrow points found in my area.  I think these were used for big and small game but although I'm in the long narrow broadhead camp, I have often wondered why the points were for the most part  really small.  I think the larger heads that people find are for atlatl's.  I found the unusual one while dragging out a deer I took with one of my homemade points. 

[H1tman7]

efficacy on large game aside - I would expect there are many small points because you can get more of them from a knappable piece of stone.  They would work larger flakes from other projects into these small points also.

[Doug Treat]

No doubt, better penetration on big game. Just saw these in a museum from the Maidu tribe (Northern California).

[Al Dente]

My guess would be that the smaller head would give better penetration on a well placed shot.  They had no way to determine draw weight, arrow weight or KE.  So, with a small razor sharp knapped head, from an unknown powered source, would give better results than a larger one.  Like drilling a 1/2" hole in a steel beam, you start with a smaller bit for the pilot hole because it will go through the steel easier than the big bore.  Just my 2 cents, maybe one of our resident Physics experts can shed some light on the subject.

[Chuck Jones]

Most real arrow points were smaller than those we use today. Here is a collection of small “bird points” from North west Illinois. Most of these are arrow points, but some are probably dart points. These were probably used for deer and even bison.

[trad_bowhunter1965]

I was thinking the same way Al, Awesome collection Chuck !!! and thanks for the photo Doug,

[Onehair]

Ryan Gill has a couple youtube videos on this subject. Wort looking at if your going to hunt with stone.

[Killdeer]

My theory is that a hard point of any size gets a stick into an animal.
Practicality makes small points more numerous than big ones.
Big blades break, get worked down.
Spalls are small, make small points.
The idea is to penetrate and disable something to eat.

Killdeer

[Tim Reese]

If I remember right Billy Berger had a article in traditional bow hunter magazine a while ago on this too. Seems it was more popular than we would think using smaller heads.

[blacktailchaser]

doug treat, do you have any more pics of the bows there....or know what museum the bow are in..thanks for sharing..

[5deer]

 

[RIVERWOLF]

Love these type threads....our history. 

I've been lucky enough to find several types, styles, designs.    I would "think" , just like us modern bowhunters.....that after they learned the basics of making stone , primitive points (be it of stone or bone;) that many had a style of there own .   So all we can do is quess as to what the normal was with these type things.  Much of history will forever be mystery...as it should be...forever testing our minds for the best way .

 "A life with everything answered for us isn't much of a life" imho

These gifts from the past stir us....with a youthful imagination=inquisitiveness...a drive to learn. That my friends is a beautiful thing.......


Just a few of my finds....the stone grinder is a pass-down from several generations that now rest with my history collection.......

[Stringwacker]

From what I have heard and read, what we consider bird points were actually used for deer. The larger heads that we commonly associate with a big game point... were actually spear points.

The only other explanation is that Indians invented youth bows, arrows, and points:)

[Pat B]

Riverwolf, I'd say because of it's asymmetry that the first pic you posted is a knife blade and not an arrowhead or atlatl point.

[RIVERWOLF]

""Riverwolf, I'd say because of it's asymmetry that the first pic you posted is a knife blade and not an arrowhead or atlatl point.""

Thanks Pat .   I would guess that also , but ?   It's notched and the edges aren't as symmetrical as most either.

It is  wide-thin  and clearly notched(more corner than side).  I found the two larger pieces  in the same general area ,  separated by miles of
stream &  years apart 

Thanks for the thoughts !

[RIVERWOLF]

posted to early

As a side note. The gray piece next to the light one was " in my mind" a knife type blade. No notches , and the general shape the same between the two. Just one was notched and the other not .

The pinkish end of a point in the above picture I found on the edge of a steep/cliff  on unplowed land . I was digging a set near a very old decaying log at the "Top"edge of the steep. I could almost imagine a critter dying in that spot .

That is the beauty of finding these ancestral hunter pieces.....they stir the soul ......

[Tim Reese]

I’m surprised I have not ever found any yet. I know a guy who finds some every year after the fields get plowed up.

[RIVERWOLF]

I hear ya Tim ...

Like the critters we hunt, you have to have the critters #1

1 old farm house I spent  many years in in my youth was imho a native village /hunting camp area .  Some plowed areas held large areas of flint chips. This is maybe 25-30 miles as a crow flies from flint ridge. Some of the flint is of that dominant flint ridge color as my broken point tip above....some black , some everything between. All precious to me. 

So yea, one has to find a good "area" to be most preductive....and then hunt past hunting areas.
My great uncle had a collection museum worthy.  When a pup , I spent weeks on his farm . most evenings he would dump show boxes full of his lesser finds for me to look over and stir the soul of a future hunter


Sad , non know what happened to those finds when he passed ......He was of a generation breaking ground for the first time in areas with the plow....be that good or bad. So they  had pretty easy pickings for such discoveries.


Best of luck to you my friend .....

[Doug Treat]

doug treat, do you have any more pics of the bows there....or know what museum the bow are in..thanks for sharing..

I only took the one picture but this is in the history museum in Quincy, Ca