Tiller measurement's and limb balance

[Bryan Adolphe]

  Thank you,Roy OK this time I measured tiller at the end of the fades 
6-5/8 left…… 6-1/2 right. So it’s 1/8 negative right side .

@ 28” of draw.

So I guess my question is, do I leave it where it is pick the right side for the lower limb, i shoot split. Or should I have even tiller and then would that move them tips to be balanced at full draw? Cheers B

[Buggs]

Looks like a KennyM design.

Now I'm curious too. Are the limbs the same length and how far from bow center will the shelf be located?

[Bryan Adolphe]

Limbs are the same, 1-1/8 from center , yes for Kennys design.

[Mad Max]

Go shoot it and see how it feels with 1/8 neg

[Kirkll]

Yup.... Listen to Max...

You start getting that close and it's a feel thing. If ya have any buzz to it, or vibration, do a bit more sanding till it smoothes out. The measurement can easily go positive or negative a bit at the balanced point......  Pull the string back an inch or so and drop it.... When ya get a dull thud, instead of a buzz
you are getting there....  Oh....Another thing.... when you get that close too, try different brace heights.

 BTW.... Tillering for 3 under vs split finger is an old wives tale.... Balance the limbs and it makes no difference.  The only time it really makes a difference is for string walkers , or for guys using a fixed crawl.
This is most commonly see in indoor target league shooting.

Kirk

[Longcruise]

Be careful saying "String Walker".  You might be misunderstood.

[Bowjunkie]

If you're not supporting the bow handle and drawing the string from your actual fulcrum points, how you're seeing it act on the tillering tree is not how it will act in your hands.

You can't predictably create the tiller/limb balance best for you unless the tillering tree mimics your fulcrum locations. Once that's done, there'll be no guessing what tiller measurements might mean for you in actual use, guessing where the nock point should be set, ballparking by feel, by how it shoots, or 'fixing' it by adjusting your grip pressure or moving the nock point up or down after its built. If you build it balanced to your fulcrums, it will behave as a balanced bow should from the outset because that's what you created.   

[Roy from Pa]

Yup, just like this.

[Bryan Adolphe]

Thanks guys, I will make those necessary adjustments to my tree and have a look at it again. Then I can glue up the belly side of the riser and cut in my shelf . 👍

[Longcruise]

Roy and Jeff,

I see in Roy's video that beautiful tracking of the nocking point but I have a difficult time understanding how this can all  be reconciled with the probable differences of the location of the pressure point of the tillering tree and the shooters hand. ??

[Kirkll]

Roy and Jeff,

I see in Roy's video that beautiful tracking of the nocking point but I have a difficult time understanding how this can all  be reconciled with the probable differences of the location of the pressure point of the tillering tree and the shooters hand. ??

If the limbs are balanced properly, when you drop the string the limbs travel forward the same, and stop the same. You would have to really be heeling down on the grip, or string walking to make a difference.

 In case some are not familiar with the term string walking, That is when your string knock is adjusted for arrow flight at the rest, and you slide your fingers down the string below the string knock. It's used for a point on aiming system very common with line shooters. An elevated rest is quite common with a string walking set up to help center the finger location on the bow closer. You also see quite a few ILF rigs on the line, and the limbs are adjusted according to the finger placement.... BUT.... Both limbs are still bending the same.

 Of course all bows require a little string knock adjustment for arrow flight. And in some cases an elevated rest is incorporated.  But getting those limbs bending in the same location evenly top and bottom is really important.  Your actual tiller measurement,  positive or negative can change a bit from bow to bow....

Listen to the string talking to you, & map your limbs if needed. Play with brace height a bit too. After while you can just see what needs to happen to get things balanced, and feel the difference.      Kirk

[Roy from Pa]

Roy and Jeff,

I see in Roy's video that beautiful tracking of the nocking point but I have a difficult time understanding how this can all  be reconciled with the probable differences of the location of the pressure point of the tillering tree and the shooters hand. ??

Mike the bow placement on the tillering tree cradle is setup to duplicate the hand grip on the bow and in conjunction with the pull rope position is setup to the bow string position when shooting. It is setup so that the trees pull rope is placed at the center of where our string grip will be when shooting.

If one limb is stronger than the other, the trees pull rope will drift off that line on the wall towards the stronger limb. Notice that bow is only held in place by a spring clamp is case some dumb a$$ bumps it and knocks it onto the floor:) And the bow does not pivot at all when I pull the rope down. Those limbs are bending in harmony together, prefect balance. I do not care if one tip travels a little farther than the other tip, don't mean squat.

Ask Crooked stic how smooth the bow I made him shoots.

[Longcruise]

"Ask Crooked stic how smooth the bow I made him shoots."

I don't doubt your results one bit.  Trying to understand your process perfectly.  So, it appears that you do this before shaping the grp?

[Roy from Pa]

So, it appears that you do this before shaping the grp?

Yes...

[Mad Max]

 I do not care if one tip travels a little farther than the other tip, don't mean squat.
[/quote]

I have never heard you say this.

[Roy from Pa]

Ya never asked:)
When tillering for equal limb timing you are just concerned about the pull rope tracking the line on the wall.

What if when tillering a bow and the guy wants to make both limb tips come down to the same point on the tree to make the bow look even. And one bow limb just happens to be a little stronger than the other bow limb. What's going to happen to the tiller when he tillers it so the limb tips match and how's the bow going to shoot with one limb stronger than the other?? Then the same guy shoots the bow and he is pulling it from a different point than where the trees pull rope was? So then he has to raise the nocking point up or down to get the bow shooting well and quiet. So then what happens to the tiller when he keeps moving the nocking point up or down and pulls different on the string?

This is just how I tiller. I assume my grip on the bow string and assume my nocking point on the string will be set at 5/8th high and set the tree up to simulate that. And when all done I make my nocking point 5/8th high and the bow shoots like a dream. There are many guys who tiller a different way and make decent bows. It's all in how the bowyer does his thing.

I don't like tillering threads cause everyone has their own way of doing bows:)

 

[Mad Max]

You showed us a Billion times HOW TO but never said dat
 

[Roy from Pa]

Ah go back to bed ya old crab:)

 

[Buggs]

You guys are funny, getting all huffy about tillering symetrical limbs. Try tillering one with asymmetrical limbs and asymmetrical riser. That will mess with your head, real good

[Roy from Pa]

No difference with equal limb timing there Buggy Boy:)