Osage longbow vs modern laminated wood/glass longbow

[Beck955]

I am hoping to delve into making Longbows for myself or friends, but not starting up a business. I like the simplicity of making self bows out of Osage or other woods and I’m wondering how those bows compare to a modern wood/glass laminate reflex/deflection longbow.
I imagine the modern laminated long bow casts and arrow farther/faster but I wonder what the difference in feet per second might be for a bow in the 50 pound range with a 500 grain arrow.
Some fall off in speed is fine. Is the difference very noticeable? Are there aspects of the self bow that it excels at??

[bucknut]

I think the difference will be so insignificant that you wont be able to tell.  The Osage may actually surprise you and have better cast than their glass cousins if well built.

[mmattockx]

While wood bows can come very close to the performance of fibreglass lam bows I would say it takes significantly more skill to get them there and they are more likely to lose performance over time with use. The other thing with wood bows is the inconsistency inherent in wood. You need a superb piece of wood to equal a FG bow and those are not that common. It is significantly easier to consistently achieve any given level of performance with FG than with wood.

Basically, wood bows get nearly all the performance available from an inferior material while FG bows only get maybe 50% of the performance available from a superior material. The end result is FG is not nearly as far ahead of wood as it should be given the differences in the material properties.


Mark

[Jeff Freeman]

Not much difference. I have a 65-in 42 lb all Osage. Built for me. And have built 66 in 42 lb glass back longbows. Speed and cast are really close to the same. One might last longer than the other, maybe. My al Osage is a very well built selfbow. JF

[Crooked Stic]

The all wood tri lam not too shabby.

[Kirkll]

I think I would recommend starting out with building a few fiberglass backed bows to get your feet wet. There is a certain amount of skill involved doing a nice job on them. But …..it will be a bit more forgiving to come up with a usable product first time out.

Then try a few tri-lam all wood bows. That will introduce to to the art of tillering and learning about grain run off. But be warned… the all wood bows are very easily turned to kindling.

  There are some good self bowyers in here that could help you though an Osage or Yew stave self bow I’m sure too. I’m not one of them.

Comparing the finished products and durability of FG bows vs All wood bows is a much bigger thing than comparing performance. I’ve seen some seriously fast all wood bows………Unfortunately humidity and temperature effect all wood bows a lot more than FG backed bows, and they need to be cared for accordingly, and stored unstrung indoors. They are not know for longevity with out special care.

Self bows are cool, but they can be heart breakers too.    Kirk

[Beck955]

I'm liking these replies.
... similar performance - differences in longevity/durability.

OK, I own a lovely HOLM MADE (no typo - Chad Holm, boyer) wood/glass longbow. Love that thing. I'd like to work with glass/wood/lam but all the bows of that type seem to be made from a complex form that boyers put a lot of time into because they plan on making hundreds of bows from it, fire hose for pressure etc. Is there a common way to make a glass/wood lam bow, one off WITHOUT crafting a seriously engineered heavy wood form??

[Buggs]

Someone here has used a vacuum to press bows. You could use just a bottom form and clamps. But unless you want to make a straight end glassed longbow, you are going need something to press it against to get the curves.

[Jeff Freeman]

Just make a straight form flat. They perform very well and quiet. JF

[mmattockx]

I'd like to work with glass/wood/lam but all the bows of that type seem to be made from a complex form that boyers put a lot of time into because they plan on making hundreds of bows from it, fire hose for pressure etc. Is there a common way to make a glass/wood lam bow, one off WITHOUT crafting a seriously engineered heavy wood form??

As Jeff notes, you can make a flat bow like the Howard Hill style on a simple flat, straight form. It won't perform like a more reflexed design, but it will certainly result in a functional traditional style long bow in the end. If you want curves then you are pretty much left with using at minimum a bottom form and clamps of some sort. Since you mention making bows for friends as well, I would suggest that a form isn't so much work if you are amortizing that over even just a few bows. You could even get some of those friends to help with the form and end up with a bow making group project.

One thing not yet mentioned is buying a kit. KennyM here makes excellent kits with drawings for the forms and offers excellent pricing and support. That way you get a proven design that you know will result in a good performing bow and all the materials you will need to get it done.

https://www.kennysarchery.com/


Mark

[Longcruise]

Get a straight 2 × 6 at the big box and have them saw a 1/2" off one edge to make it perfectly flat.  Drill for and install 7/16" oak dowels and use rubber bands cut length wise from bicycle inner tubes.

Then get back to us on what to do next? 😀

[Kirkll]

Binghams projects is another  way to go for getting started whether it be a kit or just buying glass and laminations.

Longcruise’s suggestion is a simple way to do a form system with not a lot of time invested. There  are still a lot of guys using inner tube and wood dowel clamping systems. You could even incorporate some zip ties into that system to hold things in place while you stretch your tubing….

Even a hot box isn’t really necessary with EA-40. But you should be curing the bow for 24 hours in above 60 degrees for it to cure properly before trying to get a string on it.

If you get serious about this…. You can get lots of help here.    Kirk

[Beck955]

Super - lots of good info/options from you all. It's much appreciated. Thanks in advance for upcoming support if I do dive into this further.

[Mad Max]

Roy does it all the time

[Beck955]

That picture says a lot! is that the riser glued up/clamped in the foreground??

[Pat B]

I use strips of bicycle tire tubes to wrap around a glue up. You can wrap it then put it on the form to get your side profile. Sometimes I use just the bands and sometimes I use the bands and spring clamps like on this hickory backed locust. On this bow I used Unibond that Roy sent me. I always use screw clamps at the handle to hold the handle to the form then lift the tips on blocks to achieve the reflex. A also use small screw clamps at the tips.



BTW, my form is a 2x4 as the base with small blocks of 2x4 to raise the tips into reflex. If you want a straight, not reflexed bow clamp the glue up to the 2x4 after wrapping it with the bands. This will generally give you a straight or slightly deflexed glue up.

[Roy from Pa]

[Mad Max]

That picture says a lot! is that the riser glued up/clamped in the foreground??

I used EA-40 epoxy on this one, I pretty sure I had more clamps

I got the idea from Roy
BBI (bamboo backed Ipe)
Dry run with the riser stack






Always nice Roy

[Mad Max]

If you glue one up with C clamps do a dry run and only use enough pressure to close the gaps so you don't starve the glue joint.
 

[Roy from Pa]

Nice riser Mark.
Bob
If you use C clamps, be sure to pad the back and belly with thin wood to protect the bow wood from clamp damage.