Eastern Red Cedar Longbow Progress

[DesM8]

Here's a few pics of the bow I'm currently working on.  The stave was the very skinny in the picture.  It has a good bit of 'character' and some propeller twist.  I've been able to take out some but not all with heat.  The string also still tracks to one side of the handle area fairly strongly despite multiple heating attempts.  This wood seems to not like heat as much as the hickory or other woods I've bent in the past (non-bowmaking).  If I make this preference the arrow side, will this be ok? 

Its currently at low brace, only about 2".  I'm shooting for a fairly low poundage bow for this, maybe 35lbs, it's still a lot heavier than that.  I could likely get a heavier bow out of it, but I actually want a lower poundage bow I can shoot for extended practice sessions.  My shoulders still aren't in good enough shape for shooting a lot of arrows out of a hunting weight bow 

Rawhide backing, stained it with coffee to give it back a little more natural tannin look.  The sheet I bought was bleached and I didn't like how white it was.

How does the tiller look so far?  Any tips or tricks with eastern red cedar and English longbows in general would be much appreciated!

[Pat B]

Looks pretty good but stay away from the center 1/3 for now until you get further along in the tillering process. It's easy to over do the center early on in the process.

[Mad Max]

Nice
I've been wanting to cut one of mine but not yet.

[DesM8]

Can't see it too well in those pictures, but the wood is absolutely gorgeous.  The garage also smells wonderful  Since I was backing it with the rawhide I evened up the sapwood a little bit, its still VERY wavy though.  Not sure how good/bad that is.  This D profile seems to be more difficult for me as a noob to work... the nice flat belly scrapes you can take on a traditional American flatbow are a heck of a lot easier to keep track of! 

We'll see how it goes, I'm about half expecting it to blow up at any moment tbh.

[DesM8]

Couple closer shots so you can see the wild grain patterns in this... I rounded over the string nocks, they still need some more work but I'll wait till its closer to 'done'.

[Mad Max]

ERC needs to be wide and long, 1-3/4" to 2" wide and 68"/70" long or so.
Wide and long will spread out the tension and compression.
Backing it would be smart.
When they brake it will be explosive 

[DesM8]

Haha yea I've seen a clip of ERC exploding during tillering, it was indeed spectacular    It's already backed actually, just hard to see in those pics.  I bought a large sheet of rawhide for about the same cost as the premade strips, but it was bleached and I didn't like how white it was. The coffee 'stain' got it looking very similar to the sapwood in color.

I've seen comments on making ERC wide and thin, but also comments on doing an ELB profile with it.  Since the stave was so skinny, I figured it might be worth a shot to try that.  It's around 68" and I'm going for low poundage.  Hopefully it stays together, if not, It's been good practice on a new profile style for me.

[Pat B]

A long ERC ELB should work fine.
 Did you remove the sapwood or is it still on your stave?

[DesM8]

I removed a little of the sapwood to even it up a little here and there.  Its probably about half the thickness but it still varies quite a bit down the length of the bow due to the wavy grain.

[DesM8]

This is another area I found completely conflicting info on by the way... some people swear by all sapwood making the best bows, others swear just as strongly that its the heartwood that makes good bows... And then there are some that use them together similarly to yew.  I've had a lot of trouble finding any solid info on ERC in general. 

I have definitely found its a PITA to heat bend, either by steam or heat gun.  I've left it for 45-60m steaming and over bent it a LOT and it barely registered.  I've also heated it with the heat gun for a very long time (at least double what I've done for hickory) and it just doesn't seem to want to take much of the bend.  I've been careful not to toast it like you can do with hickory, as it already seems extremely brittle... so I've just been keeping the heat moving constantly and going slow with it till its too hot to touch. 

[Mad Max]

This is another area I found completely conflicting info on by the way... some people swear by all sapwood making the best bows, others swear just as strongly that its the heartwood that makes good bows... And then there are some that use them together similarly to yew.  I've had a lot of trouble finding any solid info on ERC in general. 

Yep

[Mo_coon-catcher]

When tillering an ELD you want the shape to look like it’s got a stiff handle. Then then scape and sand the handle area to just make it move for those last 2 inches or so of draw length. If you make the handle bend too much you’ll get a jumpy bow with lots of shock. Even from lightweight cedar.

The last couple ERC bows I did had bamboo backings and I made them draw about 25-30# and 1” wide at the handle. I tillered them to barely flex in the handle. I’ve done some with rawhide backings and they end up just a bit thicker for the same weight.

Kyle

[Mad Max]

Kyle do you have any pictures???????????????

It could be the the area it grows in has a effect on the hardness/softness and the way the sap and heart wood reacts to bending in the bow.

I've been reading and some say clamping it down (reflex/recurved) while it is green and let it dry clamped down.

Seems like a lot of negatives for building a selfbow but I may give it a try myself.

[Mad Max]

I have a bunch of ERC on my place and it's used a lot around here to build furniture for DIY's.
I looked at about 50 trees trying to find one without limbs for a selfbow.
I made this for my house, raised panels and Bar top self leveling epoxy for the top.

[Mo_coon-catcher]

Looks like I didn’t get any good full draw pictures of the last ERC bow before I sent it off. I did get a couple pictures of t he handle area to shot how much more built up the handle ended up and the approximate size a 30# cedar bow ends up. Though it is bamboo backed.  But here’s an Osage ElB to show the full draw tiller I’m talking about. Where it’s more elliptically tillered with the handle bending just a little. It was circular tillered before and it shook the hell out of your hand. I shifted the bend out a bit and the jolt went away. It’s a bit more bendy in the handle than I’d like but not by much.

Kyle

[Mad Max]

Kyle

I have always heard bamboo needs to be 1/16" thick at the tips and 1/8" thick at the handle to keep it from over powering the belly for all backed bows but someone on Facebook said I was wrong.

At that thickness your bamboo end's up 1-1/4" to 1-1/2" wide.
I wonder if a Maple or Hickory backed ERC bow at 1-3/4 to 2" wide would work better?????????? 

[DesM8]

Thanks for the info Mo_coon.  I still have the handle area 'relatively' thick, and there's still a good bit of weight on the bow that needs to come off... hopefully its enough to get the handle a bit thick for the elliptical tiller.  I've seen what you mean about the small fades ELB makers put in near the handles, I'd guess you're on to the reason for why its done!  In my inexperienced mind, the circular tiller was going to be easier for me to work... but it sounds like it'd give me a rather obnoxious bow.  The point of this bow was to have something I could shoot easily for a couple hours, and it doesn't sound like it'd end up that way if I kept going the way I was. 

[DesM8]

Here's the progress so far... as discussed I've been trying to leave the handle a bit stiffer.  Its pulling 35# at 18".  I'm thinking somewhere around 35 for the final draw weight, so I'm trying not to pull it past that.   

I think the right mid-limb is still a bit stiff maybe?  How do you guys think the tiller looks in general though?

[onetone]

It does look like there is a bit more arc in the left limb to my eye. I like to lay out a grid of 3” squares on the tillering wall. Makes it really easy to carefully check and compare limbs. Example below.

[Mad Max]

Me too
I have 2" squares