Wood Arrows: Just how forgiving are they?

[JohnnyBa]

Ok, you guys know I am relatively new to the underworld of archery. I stayed away from wooden arrows until I didn’t and now have even more questions. I got my 1st 12 wooden arrows from Rose City, a set of the “ready to shoot” ones made of parallel POC,, fletched 3 5” feathers and a 125gn point. The set had a wide range of weights, but flew as straight as I have seen. I have built a carbon set that fly this great, but out of the box, these things were impressive, to me. The weights are all over the place from low 400’s to one up at 550 and the rest falling in between. Not a weight matched set, but certainly a straight shooting set out of each and every one of my bows, 8 total. My carbon arrows don’t do that. I started playing with point weight and took 6 out and removed the 125 and installed a 160. Same result, flawless flight on all bows, even shooting side by side with the 125 pointed ones. Went a step further and swapped out a 160 and glued on a 190, same thing, perfect flight and not detectable between the 125 and the 190 up to 15 yards, my current comfort zone. I know, for a fact, that point weight changes done on a carbon arrow will alter the way it handles, especially different bows. How can I wrap my head around this because I have finally run across a carbon shaft that bare shafted perfect, but I cannot get it to fly good fletched. I can copy the carbon builds from before that were great, but these arrows do not fly steady, lots of movement. The culprits are Dark Timber 500 spines, cut to 29, 3 fletch with 4” trad vanes, 50gn insert with a 175 point, what I wanted to hunt with. These just will not shoot straight. I have played with nock height but I think that is spot on, even different point ways, but nothing helps. Whuy are woodies so forgiving ang just how far can you push these shafts and what am I doing with the dark Timbers.
Bow is a 47# @ 28” hybrid, 58” AMO, 3 under, and I pull 27.5”. Kinda going nuts…..

[dnovo]

I will start off by saying I can't help you at all with the carbons. I do not and have never owned any so I have no advice on them.
I've been shooting and making wood arrows for many, many years and they are just a very forgiving material.  I mess around sometimes and change point weights and it does not affect tuning like it does on carbons.  I make a set of wood arrows and cut them to the length I prefer, put points on them and shoot them. It's really simple.
Now I will say I make matched sets. I match them within 10 grains for weight, spine with 3#.  However I can shoot multiple spine groups from my longbows without issue and I doubt that can be done with carbons.
Example, a couple years ago I had an issue with the ulnar nerve in my right arm and couldn't draw a bow for a few weeks. Now I was headed to Texas hunting javelina and I had just received a new longbow that was 43# an identical to my 49#. I shot that bow for the first time after I got to Texas. My hunting arrow were the same as I used in a 53# longbow as I didn't have time to make new ones. I ended up killing 2 javelina with that bow and the arrows flew great from it. I have since made some matched to that bow but I can still shoot other arrows just fine.
Wood arrows are just great. You're new to the game so experience will benefit you. Don't drag yourself down trying to figure everything out right away.. Shoot and have fun.

[Squirrel Hunter]

I am a wood arrow fanatic. I have made and shot them almost exclusively for 35 years but recently started keeping a set of carbons for special purposes and backup. In my experience, properly tuned carbons with very heavy points are a bit more forgiving of form errors and matching errors than wood. Wood is quieter and more easily tuneable. My woodies are just as straight as carbon, although it takes work to get and keep them that way. They are matched to 3 grains weight and 1/2 lb spine. Again, that takes work but can be done if you want to. 

One piece of advice on the carbons: ditch the trad vanes. They’re a scam. They can be oriented to shoot off the shelf but are not as forgiving as feathers. The difference between trad vanes and regular vanes is not the flexibility but the low profile. Regular vanes cut to the the same height perform exactly the same. Feathers, on the other hand, can be easily waterproofed with silicon spray or powder and a plastic bag.

[MnFn]

I was talking with an outfitter who worked with traditional bow hunters a lot. He said the biggest problem he saw in camp was guys shooting overspined arrows.

With carbons I shot bare shafts along side of fletched arrows  and trimmed or added weight until they grouped together - maybe slightly weak for the bare shafts. Always seemed to work unless I was too far off on spine to start with. For me, the old Carbon Express 150 w/ 50 grain inserts worked well for  around 50# bows. At 55# CE250 worked.

But I do love shooting woodies. And I love four 4” fletching. Mostly, I started with shooting through paper (6-10 feet) and changing length or weight until I had nice little holes. Then verified that by shooting at longer distances and watching flight (see Ken Becks video). I guess this works with all types of arrows. For me usually about ten lbs more spine than bow. For my 51 lb Shrew or 53# Blacktail recurve 62/64 spine worked.  For 48# Tall Tines recurve 55/60 - 60/65 worked out. (28” draw, so 29” arrow, and 160 heads.

And I am shooting aluminum now also. 2016s seem to be very a forgiving spine.
Just my experience.

[M60gunner]

Although I am over stocked on carbons mainly because they hold up better to my lousy shooting and our desert environment I hate to tune them. I also find woods and aluminums much less of a pain. Why your wood arrows work well with different weights I have no scientific answer. But go for it. Remember what an old friend of mine told me, “ If you find something that works, buy a thousand “.

[The Whittler]

I don't believe any arrow or bow is forgiving, it's all you.

[Caranthir]

 If spined well, very forgiving. Wood is solid and it rotates around a central axis. Howard Hill was famous for grabbing an arrow from every shooter he was competing with and shot them all better than their owners did. Read about it in one of his books, never saw him do it though. My experience with different arrow materials makes wood my favorite arrow material. Haven't tried them all but given enough time and $$ wouldn't be opposed to it. Wood arrow enthusiasts all have their favorites. Take a little more effort, but very satisfying, well worth it !

[Stringwacker]

Carbon arrows are fickle...its just a fact. I've always had to have a carbon really dialed into a tune to be satisfied with it. One of the more odd things I've noticed is my 5/16" carbons tune to a higher nock point than my 11/32's wood. Its not normally not suppose to work that way; but it does for me.

Woods often shoot well even when the spine variance approaches 20 pounds. I'm not trying to say they hit the same spot (though they have a closer impact than you would think), I'm just saying they shoot clean off the string with great flight.

Why are woods more forgiving? I don't know but years ago I read something from Paul Brunner that I've never forgotten. At the time it was just wood and aluminum for the most part in that era. He said wood was more forgiving. He pointed out that if you take an aluminum shaft, hold lightly between your fingers and let if free fall on the edge of a hard surface (like a table edge) the arrow would hit and bounce several times...kind of a like ping, ping, ping. Do the same experiment with wood and it would fall and just 'stick' where it hit. The wood arrow didn't react at all so he reasoned that its was more forgiving of a bad release or more variance than the aluminum.

I would like to try the same experiment with carbon...I'm betting it falls somewhere in the middle of those two extremes.

I still like the carbon arrow for the same reasons many other people like them. Even though wood is much easier to get good arrow flight, it is a bit harder to get them to group as well.... without a good bit more work.

[JohnnyBa]

Thanks all for the great insight on the replies. I did more shooting and just came down to grouping the woodies into a 480ish group(4), and a 520ish group(7), 1 was over 600gns even with the stock 125 point, just set it aside. Only one or two kept their 125 points, most took the 160 and all of the lightest group took the 190’s and they all flew good before and still do. When I do my part, they really do hit where I look and I can get 3 rubbing outta 4. I cannot ‘splain the whys but I do know I will shelve the carbons for awhile a spend some on some premo shafts and try and get me a woodie for hunting at 525-550. Looking at a Doug fir spine at 50-55, cut to 28” with a point/BH combo that’ll get me that weight.
I do agree with dumping the trad vanes. Not totally unhappy but they do NOT fly like feathers and they are way more fragile. Got lots left, but they’re going in the box with the carbons. Got feathers coming and will start on my new woodies soon, will post pics. Thanks again all!

[Kelly]

Wood are a solid tube, the others are hollow.

I find woods shoot great and so do aluminum but carbons need quite a bit of messing with.

All arrow should be forgiving, they are not critical if you do your part. I can shoot woods that vary 15# in spine and 100 grains in weight and all group together for me at 10-20 yards.

[LookMomNoSights]

Seems like alot of talk here about woods arrows as of late 
That's a good thing! Brand new or been around the block,  if someone never tried wood I hope they take the jump and give em a shot!

[Roger Norris]

One year up at ShrewHaven I killed 2 does....same treestand, same Shrew bow, basically the same shot....one with a cedar arrow, and a few days later one with carbon.

The results were the same....double lung, complete penetration, dead deer within 30 yards.

I shoot carbon or aluminum for durability and ease of build. I shoot cedar for nostalgia. The only ones I ever had trouble tuning were aluminum arrows from a Hill Style Longbow.

[MnFn]

When I bought my 51# Shrew CH from Ron L. I thought who better to ask about wood arrows and  He suggested around 62/64 Sitka Spruce from Paul Jalon and they turned out about perfect with 160 grain heads.

I bought a lot of arrows from Snag at Wilderness Custom arrows also. I really got spoiled by him. Beautiful arrows.

[Gordon Jabben]

I haven't ever owned a carbon arrow and have been shooting wood arrows for a long time. I just get the spine that is close to what my bow weight is (even if they are not close, they shoot pretty well) and cut them an inch past the riser, add point that not crazy heavy and start shooting.  Archers have been doing this for many years with good luck.  I wonder if the guys having trouble with wood arrows are the ones trying to tune them like carbon. 

[JohnnyBa]

Seems like alot of talk here about woods arrows as of late 
That's a good thing! Brand new or been around the block,  if someone never tried wood I hope they take the jump and give em a shot!

I am in for sure! Absolutely love them. Now making my own strings and I swear I am shooting better!

[Wheels2]

I have found wood to be pretty forgiving g so long as the spine is consistent. The best shafts and arrows come when you start out with all of the same spine..
It seems that paradox takes lo ger to straighten with wood.. 

[MnFn]

Maybe forgiving isn’t the best word to use with arrows. Get them spined right for your bow and your technique and they are more consistent than a marginal spined arrow.

With bows, some just shoot better for me. Call it what you will. The Shelton in Northern Mist, the English in Liberty shoot more consistent for me than some other bows.