Gt trad classic xt’s

[Vroomvroom]

So I had them for a while but haven’t had a chance to tune them.  I was getting a touch stiff after I cut a lot off the 500 spines for my 26.5” draw. Using a 49#@28” roots gamemaster recurve.   I cut another 1/4” longer and it seems to be bareshafting decent at 15 yards.   So these come with 75 gr outcerts , the shafts are 10.2 gpi.  With 125 gr hips and 10 gr ballistic collars.    Once complete I fletched one with 5” pipe and young fletching but have not shot it yet. Bed time.  I measured from nock groove to back of tip and it’s 30”.  That includes the half inch outcert.   It balances about 20” from nock groove.    Using just 125 grain tips I weighed the fletched arrow,…..a whopping 689 gr!!!    Not sure the poundage I’m pulling on that 49 pound bow but that’s heavy gpp.   I’m sure it will make it somewhat sluggish.   Hope it flies nice is all

[Vroomvroom]

Just adding it up on paper.  75 gr outsert. 10 gr ballistic collar. 125 gr tip.  29.5” shaft at 10.2 gpi. Nock ( didn’t weigh). Wrap 7”. Pope and young 5” fletching.   

What I add up on paper, always seems a lot less in reality. Suppose hot melt glue might add some.

[Vroomvroom]

Update. I must of messed up when weighing it. Weighed it again this morning. It’s only 542.    That’s with the 75 gr insert, 10 gr collar, 125 gr tip, nock, 7” wrap ,  and a bit 29” of carbon at 10.2 gpi. Still heavy for this bow. But not bad.

[Wudstix]

Using your numbers and standard 3# per inch on draw weights.  You could be shooting 44-45#.  That would put your gpp at @12.18.  That would give you a very quiet arrow.  Quiet kills, not speed.  Just hit the animal in a vital area and you'll be fine.
 

[Vroomvroom]

It is quiet yes.  Currently though I bareshaft rd and cut one 1/4” shorter and it started Nock right.  I shot two shafts, one quarter inch longer than the other and the longer one seemed to stick in straight.   I fletched it and a day or two later tried it at 20 yards. Over and over I was hitting 6” left.  Though it flies nice. Quiet. It’s shooting left.  When I get the chance I have a 145 gr tip and another heavier again.  Just to try.   But if that seems to make it hit where I’m looking. I may take the few shafts I got left and cut them 1/4” longer or more , fletch them and see if they impact straighter.   I do know when I bareshafted, any longer it would be Nick left. So I cut 1/4” off and it straightened up.    But now that it’s fletched, it’s hitting left 6”.   

[Wudstix]

There are many more here, better qualified them I to discuss this.  When I was fussing with the CX Heritage 350 shafts, once I got rid of the nock left and only had a slight nock high, it was string nock position that fixed it.  Actually, canting the bow a little more was the real fix.  I started at 30.75" (3/4) and ended up at 29.875" (7/8) with @300 grains up front.  It settled things down.
 

[McDave]

Once the shaft is tuned, right or left misses are likely due to a form error.  Most trad shooters anchor on the side of their faces, and it is easy to end up with the arrow shaft to the right of the dominant eye (RH shooter) which results in a consistent miss to the left of the point of aim.  Correct this either by finding some spot to anchor where the arrow is directly under your dominant eye, or tilting your head slightly to achieve the same result. 

Another reason a RH shooter could have left misses with a tuned arrow is torquing the bow or the string.  These misses will usually not be as consistent as misses due to the arrow not being under the eye, because people usually don't torque the bow or the string the same for every shot.

Another reason would be if the shooter is not really coming to full draw, so the string forearm and elbow is not all the way behind the arrow.  The arrow will tend to go the way the string forearm is pointing, and if the string forearm is pointing to the left of the target, the arrows will impact to the left.

Another reason would be if you are shooting a bow that is less centershot than the one you are used to shooting.  However, from what I remember, the Gamemaster is cut to or past past center, so that probably isn't the problem.  Just as a general aside, the Gamemaster originally came with a thick arrow rest, and if yours has been around for a while and now has a thin arrow rest, you could probably improve arrow flight by using an arrow rest that is at least 1/4” thick or using an elevated rest.

[Wudstix]

Dave,
I think what fixed my nock high was canting the bow and tilting my head in a more hunting shoot position, as opposed to slightly more upright target shooting position.
 

[M60gunner]

McDave described me to a tee. I am guilty of doing all he said. But I do find what you found, canting the bow and moving my head into it I am more consistent and shoot better groups. Also found some bows just work better for that , my longbows and my 62 Kodiak reproduction from Vintage Works as examples.

[Vroomvroom]

So. I’m not getting much chance to diagnose the issue.  However I did take a dozen to two dozen shots. Using different tips.  I wasn’t set up to use camera.  But it seemed like I could definently notice a wobble in the 200 gr tip.  I tried tuning to 125.  I tried 150, 175 also. Everyone still hit to the left. So I put the 125 back on.  I canted the bow which for some reason I don’t like. As I know to cant my string hand and face also.  Regardless, the shots went straight at a certain cant. I put the camera in slow motion just to see if I could capture something.  I just got the bow in the frame. When the arrow went, it seemed to go left almost off the shelf before continuing on.   I seemed to notice , or so I thought that the bareshaft was Nock left a little longer. And nock right a touch shorter.   So I fletched that length.  It seems to fly clean.   Just to the left. I might not have the cleanest release. I’m not sure. In the past my hand does come out a bit when I release but it also appears like the arrow is on its way before my hand drifts off.    I’m using a good tab. 

[McDave]

From your description, I would guess that the arrow shaft is to the right of your dominant eye at full draw, and when you cant the bow you move it more directly under your eye.

[Vroomvroom]

It’s possible. I was trying to be conscious it was lined right down the shaft. But almost need someone to look. Or record it. Need some kind of selfy stick I can mount the phone on.  At 20 yards,  it’s pretty consistent to the right. At least it’s consistent

[Vroomvroom]

I tried to ensure my string arm was in line too.  If I could practice for a while maybe I’d figure out why. Arrow does jump off the bow a good bit.  This is also the same arrow. I should make another.  I was going to fletch one 1/4” longer. But the heavier tips almost should of done the same I’d imagine

[Vroomvroom]

Well, I started blocking out the arrow with the string while at full draw.  Arrows were going straight.  Despite seemingly looking straight down shaft. The arrows were going left. But once I lined it up so the string was partially blocking view of arrow. They were going straight.

[McDave]

If the string blur in the middle of your eye bothers you, you can keep your head and the arrow in the same position, but cant the bow 2-3* off vertical. The arrow will still be under your eye, but the string blur will move over to the corner of your eye. I find this to be a useful “visual anchor” so to speak

[Vroomvroom]

I’ll give it a try

[Vroomvroom]

The arrows, are 29” carbon to carbon.  There’s half inch to the string nock.  Also there’s another half inch of outsert.   So measuring from string groove to the back of the balance point I get 20 inches.  I plugged in the length from the arrow groove to the back of the tip/point. I included the outsert.  And get about 17.8 foc.   
The arrows weigh about 538 gr give or take. I have 7” wraps that are overlapped a little   .three  5” pope and young fletchings.    The bow is a game master 49 lb roots.  I draw 26.5” I think.    Seems like I hear in general much higher weights on here. But then I suppose most probably shorten the arrows up as much as they can leading to more tip weight.   
I hear people say also these gt trad classics due to footing, outsert, gpi are generally cause some to drop a spine range. 
I have a Dacron b55 string. Brace at 8.125”.

Is this arrow, 29.5” from string groove to back of tip using a 500 spine gt trad classic xt similar length to what others have found with similar set ups. I know it will vary with string, now, Center shot, tip weight etc. but just curious if what others ended up with using a recurve of about 49-50 lbs and 500 spine. 

[Vroomvroom]

Here is a pic

[McDave]

What is a game master roots?  Is that the same as a Hoyt Gamemaster?

[Vroomvroom]

A recurve a fellow gave me.  It’s a roots brand.   Gamemaster is the model.