True instinctive shooting

[Maclean]

The arguments on this subject are never-ending (and often as amusing as they are absurd), but one way to factually view the 'it doesn't exist' topic is to look to the U.S. military and how they tend to view it. 

In a nutshell, there are two practical ways to employ your weapon in the field, point shooting and sight shooting.  One relies primarily on the sighting (aiming) with front and rear sighting devices, the other is less device-dependent and relies primarily on practiced feel (pointing).  One is for close-range-no-time-to-waste-or-you're-probably-going-to-die' situations, the other is more tempered and calculated for times where precision is the main need and priority.  Point vs. sight, the rapid practiced feel of pointing vs. the slower precision-based advantages of aiming.  Both are real.  Both work.  Both EXIST.  Each performs better under different circumstances.

Such it is with the instinctive (call it hunting) vs. aiming (call it target) archery venues.  They are both 'real' but are not the same thing and they shouldn't be viewed (or arbitrarily defended as the 'best') unless the situation dictates that one actually makes more sense than the other.  To do otherwise is just opinionated foo foo.

Maybe it's best we stop yelling at each other, recognize the facts, work with the realities and yes...get along.  Just a thought.

Well said!

[hill boy]

Why is instinctive shooting any different than throwing a baseball or shooting a basketball? 

[Wudstix]

Try shooting a hog in near darkness with gap shooting, or any other form of aiming.
 

[blacktailbob]

instinctive
adjective
UK  /ɪnˈstɪŋk.tɪv/ US  /ɪnˈstɪŋk.tɪv/
Add to word list
Instinctive behaviour or reactions are not thought about, planned, or developed by training:

From Cambridge dictionary, Webster is the same. Maybe they need to go back to school.

I just call it bare bow shooting.

[BAK]

And some of us are able to do both 

[Kirkll]

I truely believe it's a hand / eye coordination that is simply done and not thought about.  But if its  pitch black with unknown yardage... all bets are off.

Here is a fun one to try.... We used to have a night shoot we would do at a 3D event that was incredibly difficult. There were 20 3D targets set up at unknow distances in very dense timber. with no moon, it was absolutely pitch black. You couldn't even see your hands in front of your face, much less your bow.    There was no use of a flash light except on the trail walking from one target to the next.   On the target was a glow stick... And they used different sized glow sticks too just to throw you off.... The distance ranged from 10 yards to 30 yards, and all you could take with you is 6 arrows...... Talk about a crap shoot!   there were many guys that never got through the course without loosing all 6 arrows...   It was a lot of fun.

But after doing that, it certainly makes you think again about what the term instinctive shooting really is....  Even doing this in your back yard knowing the distance . If its pitch black and you cant see your bow or arrow at all .... You are shooting blind....    Give it a go some time...   Kirk

[Mike Bolin]

When I first started shooting trad bows, a friend and I used to shoot at night in my backyard. We would take a soccer ball and wrap it with duct tape and put four pieces of reflective tape about 1" squares on the ball. We would throw the ball and shoot it wherever it stopped rolling with flu-flus and judo points. Moonlight or whatever light from the neighbors (100 yards away) was just enough to "light up" the reflective tape. Lots of fun and fantastic practice. Also shot at a small piece of aluminum foil on the practice bales. Set a bale on its side about a foot in front of the bale with the foil and placed a candle in a mason jar behind it to make the foil shine.

[Terry Green]

I've been running this site for over 20 years, if you think you are going to come in here and bs me you have lost your mind.

This does not include anyone on this thread, the person I addressed has been removed. I'm not playing kindergarten games.

[Sam Spade]

 

That guy didn't know his asset from 3rd base.

[blacktailbob]

Haha Sam

I don't know what to really call my style of shooting/aiming when "I'm" in tune but sure got got some names when my arrows (or most likely me) are not!

[GCook]

Now don't be bringing facts and common sense into a perfectly good bashing.

[jimmytidmore]

My advice isn't worth much, but I'll chime in.

I'm cross-eye dominant (right-handed, left-eye dominant), but am way too stubborn to shoot left-handed. I know I could make the switch, I know others have, I know it's only hard for a while... I know all of that, but I just don't want to. SO shooting right-handed with a left dominant eye means if I was going to aim, I would pretty much have to close my left (i.e. dominant) eye and use my right (non-dominant) eye to aim down the arrow. Tried it some in the beginning and didn't like it.

Shooting instinctive, with both eyes open, on the other hand, seems to work FOR ME. Not to say I'm a great shot or anything like that, but I've become proficient at it. It seems to be the best way FOR ME to keep both eyes open while being cross-eye dominant.

While I am going, let me say something about the analogy we often use to throwing a baseball or shooting a basketball. While I understand what's meant, I've always felt they fall a little short because, unlike throwing a ball, there is something else (a bow) between the shooter and the arrow. Those analogies of throwing baseballs and shooting basketballs would work better, I think, with something like throwing a spear.

What makes more sense to me is comparing instinctive shooting to what a good baseball coach does when he grabs a bat, tosses a ball in the air, and hits a perfect pop fly to the left fielder. And then hits a perfect grounder to second base. And then a line drive to the shortstop. And all the way around the field to every position—including over the fence when he wants to show off. That, in my mind, is closer to what is meant by instinctive shooting, with the bat representing the bow.

Again... I'm in no real position to chime in here. And I'm happy with people shooting however they want—I taught my son to gap shoot because I was tired of lost arrows. But saying that there's no such thing as instinctive is like claiming a baseball coach can't warm up his team without the help of something more than years of swinging a bat and knowing how to make the ball go where he wants it to go.

[Captain*Kirk]

My advice isn't worth much, but I'll chime in.

I'm cross-eye dominant (right-handed, left-eye dominant), but am way too stubborn to shoot left-handed. I know I could make the switch, I know others have, I know it's only hard for a while... I know all of that, but I just don't want to. SO shooting right-handed with a left dominant eye means if I was going to aim, I would pretty much have to close my left (i.e. dominant) eye and use my right (non-dominant) eye to aim down the arrow. Tried it some in the beginning and didn't like it.

Shooting instinctive, with both eyes open, on the other hand, seems to work FOR ME. Not to say I'm a great shot or anything like that, but I've become proficient at it. It seems to be the best way FOR ME to keep both eyes open while being cross-eye dominant.

While I am going, let me say something about the analogy we often use to throwing a baseball or shooting a basketball. While I understand what's meant, I've always felt they fall a little short because, unlike throwing a ball, there is something else (a bow) between the shooter and the arrow. Those analogies of throwing baseballs and shooting basketballs would work better, I think, with something like throwing a spear.

What makes more sense to me is comparing instinctive shooting to what a good baseball coach does when he grabs a bat, tosses a ball in the air, and hits a perfect pop fly to the left fielder. And then hits a perfect grounder to second base. And then a line drive to the shortstop. And all the way around the field to every position—including over the fence when he wants to show off. That, in my mind, is closer to what is meant by instinctive shooting, with the bat representing the bow.

Again... I'm in no real position to chime in here. And I'm happy with people shooting however they want—I taught my son to gap shoot because I was tired of lost arrows. But saying that there's no such thing as instinctive is like claiming a baseball coach can't warm up his team without the help of something more than years of swinging a bat and knowing how to make the ball go where he wants it to go.

Jimmy, I was faced with the same issue. I did a 'work-around' by closing my left eye and gapping. It worked pretty well and shot some nice tight groups, but all the while I was seeing in 2D and it kept bothering me that a deer in the big woods is not standing broadside at 20 yards waiting for you to gap off his hooves. So I decided to take the plunge and shoot instinctive, no gapping. Look at the target or McKenzie deer, stare a hole in it and let fly. At first my arrows kept hitting left. It was really frustrating but I kept at it every night for half an hour to 45 minutes. Took me most of the summer, but it finally took. I think it's maybe more common than some might think; especially with new shooters that can't seem to get the hang of it? Bottom line, I'm way happier shooting instinctively than I was gapping, even though my instinctive is still not as accurate as I shot gapping. Maybe it would work better if I was a tournament archer, but I'm a hunter. So that's that.

[GCook]

And some of us are able to do both 

My accuracy is a lot more pinpoint with a gap process.  That said there are times the "instinctive" kicks in and works best.
Especially on a pig up close in very low light.

[Pat B]

When I bought G. Fred Asbell's book, Instinctive Shooting in 1988 I had been shooting a bow with training wheels without sights or arrow rest for at least a year. I never liked sights or sighting because it takes me too long to get everything lined up to make a shot. Even when duck hunting I never saw the front bead at the end of the barrel. I just looked and shot. I've only shot "instinctively" since.
 I've hunted with only trad bows or selfbows mostly since. On a few occasions I don't remember the actual shot, I remember seeing the deer coming and picking a spot, putting tension on the string then seeing the arrow in the deer or in the ground. When shooting I rarely acknowledge my bow or arrow but concentrate on the spot where the arrow will go. I call it instinctive shooting because that's what G.Fred's book called it. That's good enough for me. I don't care how anyone else shoots as long as they shoot ethically.

[Kirkll]

Great post Pat…. I too started out using Fred’s form learning to wing shoot. Comparing it to a shot gun wing shooting is a perfect example. But it wasn’t until later that I learned I was seriously short drawing my bow using that unique stance Fred used and my alignment was suffering as well as my consistency.

My next stage In form development came with learning a rotational draw and a good solid anchor point with good alignment.  Terry’s shot clock technique was very helpful in getting my alignment consistent, and I studied and practiced a lot watching Jimmy Blackmon, and Arnie Moes shooting style.

 Unfortunately , or fortunately, depending on perspective,  I went down a lot of different rabbit holes with  aiming techniques such as gap shooting and string walking before going back to instinctive shooting. It was good experience, but not what you would call instinctive at all.

But I learned that consistency in anchor point, and good alignment is the key to shooting instinctively. Bending at the waist and maintaining your form you can shoot consistently in any position, and let your subconscious mind take care of the aiming part. Pick a spot, grip it and rip it with no thought at all…great stuff! Experience is what makes a good instinctive archer…..      Kirk

[Pat B]

Consistent experience!

[jimmytidmore]

Jimmy, I was faced with the same issue. I did a 'work-around' by closing my left eye and gapping. It worked pretty well and shot some nice tight groups, but all the while I was seeing in 2D and it kept bothering me that a deer in the big woods is not standing broadside at 20 yards waiting for you to gap off his hooves. So I decided to take the plunge and shoot instinctive, no gapping. Look at the target or McKenzie deer, stare a hole in it and let fly. At first my arrows kept hitting left. It was really frustrating but I kept at it every night for half an hour to 45 minutes. Took me most of the summer, but it finally took. I think it's maybe more common than some might think; especially with new shooters that can't seem to get the hang of it? Bottom line, I'm way happier shooting instinctively than I was gapping, even though my instinctive is still not as accurate as I shot gapping. Maybe it would work better if I was a tournament archer, but I'm a hunter. So that's that.

Kirk, The seeing in 2D thing is real. Bothered me too. And you’re right, it did (and still does) take a lot of work, but I too personally enjoy shooting with both eyes open and focused on the spot I want to hit. But I can also see how others would enjoy something different.

I’m more of Rick Welch style shooter than grip it and rip it. I shoot three under and hold for a second or two while focusing on my spot and giving my brain the time it needs to get my bow hand pointed where it needs to be to send the arrow where I want it to go. But that’s just what works for me. I think I’ve tried it all!

[Sam McMichael]

It seems to me that many who insist the instinctive just doesn't exist are often just looking for a confrontation. Shoot the way you like. If you hit, fine. If not, practice some more. Me, I'm a believer.

[MarlinMark]

It's like shooting a slingshot or wrist rocket.  Not complicated, but definitely needs a little practice.  The ones that are good at it started hitting things they were aiming at sooner than the ones who didn't.