TOPLESS

[dbeaver]

Alright lets weigh it out.  I love the good old stability of a massive chunky form with fat steel straps and the hunky fasteners.  Its what ive seen most and what ive used exclusively.  Id love to hear from guys who have topless forms that have moved away from the standard hardware.  How are you glue ups compared to when you were making a two sided form, what do you like better, whats to watch out for?

Im about to make at least one new form and am ready to try anything even if its my tried and true classic method.  (Kirk im willing to build a stainless conduction bed form on hinges too, im just behind on my research for getting a consistent slow temp rise to peak and maintain peak temp through a dc regulator and the possibility of super easy temperature probes and cheap circuitry)

[Kirkll]

 definitely keep me in the loop on any new developments on heat strip power source. These battery chargers only last so long before needing to be replaced.

I’ve seen a lot of topless form ideas that should work fine with or without an air hose. Using a lot of air pressure is not really necessary, but …..getting an even pressure along the whole surface is important. For that reason I do like the fire hose method.

I’ve seen guys using pegs along the form, and bicycle inner tubing that came out with beautifully even lay ups. But they were very precise in their procedure working from the center outward in both directions. I’ve seen the same peg system used with 2500# heavy mule tape and an air hose…..

I think a vacuum system could work theoretically, but I have very little experience with the process, and doubt it would be a cost effective solution.

Kirk

[Crooked Stic]

The form I made was early summer. It had a top. Either way works. With the price of good plywood maybe cheaper top less, but them you have to buy steel rod or wood dowell. And mule tape

[Mad Max]

You can get 100 ft. of the mule from Amazon for 17 bucks.
1/2" steel rod, get the 20 ft from some steel supply, should be less than 20 bucks, I bought three 36" from tractor supply but should have bought the 20 ft. my bad.
 I like the topless form for long bows , R/D and working recurves.
I have a short 50" static recurve that is hard to get good results but I worked out the bugs.

This short Korea bow is 50" (not the static I was talking about) has 14" of reflex so the 2 piece form would not work in my hot box, so the topless worked fine. This is the form, and the first time I did a topless form.

[B-JS]

I use topless Forms for Prototypes and Bows, that i don't build that often.
Saves space, but it's inconvenient. Takes a lot more Time, than using a Form with top.
For Heat, i use Silicone Heat Strips.

[dbeaver]

all good information gentlemen, some ideas to chew on

[Crooked Stic]

Max how thick of a pressure strip you using?

[Mad Max]

.035

[Longcruise]

The form I made was early summer. It had a top. Either way works. With the price of good plywood maybe cheaper top less, but them you have to buy steel rod or wood dowell. And mule tape

No need for mule tape.  It's a "solution" that has become popular due to you tubers.  I use a couple dollars worth of paranoid with completely satisfactory results.  One of my forms has 7/16" oak dowels for pegs and has held up fine.  3/8" oak gave me one broken peg late enough in.the cure to not matter.   That and other 3/8" pegs were converted to 3/8" steel.

I go to 65# on mine.

[Crooked Stic]

I would expect that with snug holes wood dowells would be fine. Para cord also.

[Mad Max]

The form I made was early summer. It had a top. Either way works. With the price of good plywood maybe cheaper top less, but them you have to buy steel rod or wood dowell. And mule tape

No need for mule tape.  It's a "solution" that has become popular due to you tubers.  I use a couple dollars worth of paranoid with completely satisfactory results.  One of my forms has 7/16" oak dowels for pegs and has held up fine.  3/8" oak gave me one broken peg late enough in.the cure to not matter.   That and other 3/8" pegs were converted to 3/8" steel.

I go to 65# on mine.

It's all good until you come in the next morning and find a broke wood dowel and screw up a good bow.
The mule tape is flat and wide (1/2" or so) and the steel rods don't break.

[dbeaver]

Kenny had a small build along for a simple American longbow he used mule tape and routed slots into the bottom of the formboard so the mule tape would wrap around fully not weave back and forth pin to pin.   With enough routed slots and plenty of cheap paracord you could  get as much or little coverage as you'd need.  See any disadvantages with something like that? I think I may stick to the standard hardware for my next form.   But it's good to hear everything play with ideas

[Longcruise]

The form I made was early summer. It had a top. Either way works. With the price of good plywood maybe cheaper top less, but them you have to buy steel rod or wood dowell. And mule tape

No need for mule tape.  It's a "solution" that has become popular due to you tubers.  I use a couple dollars worth of paranoid with completely satisfactory results.  One of my forms has 7/16" oak dowels for pegs and has held up fine.  3/8" oak gave me one broken peg late enough in.the cure to not matter.   That and other 3/8" pegs were converted to 3/8" steel.

I go to 65# on mine.

It's all good until you come in the next morning and find a broke wood dowel and screw up a good bow.
The mule tape is flat and wide (1/2" or so) and the steel rods don't break.

Not promoting wood dowels.  To the contrary,  I stated that I've changed all but the 7/16" oak.  Another reason for those oaks to hold up is I wrap very close to the form.  Move your loops out and away and the leverage game is on.  The other factor with that form is the pegs are closer together.

[Longcruise]

For some, this wouldn't matter, but topless allows both major and minor changes in length shapes of risers.  On one ASL form I've varied riser length from 13 to 17 inches.   Only that changes is pressure strip(s).

[kennym]

Kenny had a small build along for a simple American longbow he used mule tape and routed slots into the bottom of the formboard so the mule tape would wrap around fully not weave back and forth pin to pin.   With enough routed slots and plenty of cheap paracord you could  get as much or little coverage as you'd need.  See any disadvantages with something like that? I think I may stick to the standard hardware for my next form.   But it's good to hear everything play with ideas

I would put the pegs in it!!  What a PITA getting the spool of tape around it without dropping it!! 

[Mad Max]

Yeah Kenny I've done the round and round for overlays and a hose and it's a pain 

[onetone]

When I use the topless method I try to eliminate the parts of the process which are a PITA. Managing the mule tape is the biggest challenge. I start with the air hose just slightly inflated. I have two lengths of the tape that have been repeatedly. Starting on the center pin I wrap the tape out to about the 4th or 5th one and anchor the tape there using a spring clamp. Then back to the center pin, on opposite end and using the other length of MT, wrap it out to 6 or 8 pins and clamp it there. Then back to the other side to complete wrapping the hose and finally wrap the other end. Now it’s the time to check that the hose is centered along the entire form - this is important. This form in the photo is only 1 1/8” wide which presents its own challenges regarding centering the hose. I keep thinking I need to find a smaller diameter hose … because the hose diameter is larger than the thickness of the form the tape wants to slip off the pins before the hose is pressurized. One wrap of friction tape around each pin now prevents the tape from slipping off.

I store each length of tape wrapped flat on separate HD cardboard tubes. When it is time to use the tape, I put both tubes over a section of 3/4” pipe which is loosely anchored on the bench parallel to the form. The weight of the pipe allows the tape to unroll only when pulled on, so this eliminates dropping rolls or coils. Also there are no unplanned stops to straighten tangles or knots. So to have this topless method go smoothly it helps to have a clearly practiced procedure in mind.

I thought I would give the topless approach a go but I find it is more time consuming than using a two piece form and I will go back to that method soon. The added hassles are not worth the lesser labor of not making an upper half to a form. The one exception I can think of is, if you just want to do a one-off bow. Then topless might make sense. Just my opinion based on my experience.

[dbeaver]

Such good information, thanks everybody I heard from most of those who I expected would have experience to share and I appreciate the responses

[Mad Max]

I tie a overhand loop knot in the center of the mule tape. it give's me a starting point that is anchored.
I start in the center too.

[Crooked Stic]

PFFT think I will stay with tops.