Horn tip experiment

[Kirkll]

I’ve been wanting to try a horn tip for awhile, and I had some pretty dense phenolic I thought I’d experiment with that has about the same density as water buffalo horn…..  Do you guys think this will work on a glass backed limb?

Please feel free to criticize, or make recommendations. After taking the photos I think it may be a wee bit too long…. What do you guys think?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/oEcZYFA6uDLp1Ziq7

[Mad Max]

I was at the Tn. classic a few years ago and I sanded the stave at the same angle and glued on a tip.
Some will say it can raise a splinter and some say it doesn't bend there, It's OK. 
Maybe cut a 1/4" off and reshape.

Some of your pictures it looks really long and some look a little long.
I had a stave that was a little short and did the same thing to make it 64" not 62"

[Crooked Stic]

With that angle you have where the pieces mate up I am not sure. That one I think might need some testing before it gets out the door.

[dbeaver]

If we're looking at this as a sort of scarf joint, just get as much surface area as possible and keep the nock on the first third where the meat is really on the bow still. Sorta how you have it but it looks to be where the 'horn' and bow thickness is equal

[Kirkll]

Thanks guys….

After looking at it again this morning, I think it’s too long. I’m not concerned with the strength of the scarf joint, or horn material where the tip notch is located.

What concerns me is the added weight extended past that string notch, and the momentum of the forward limb travel popping it loose at the belly side when the string stops the limb.

These are just aesthetic after all. From a performance standpoint the lighter your tips are the better….. but I love the looks of these full horn tips.

Thanks for the feed back….   Kirk

[Pat B]

Kirk, I don't know much about glass bows but what I learned when I made a few ELBs was as long as the string groove is below the bow tip and not at or beyond there shouldn't be a problem. I think they look cool. The excess length may take away from the performance some(probably not that much). Are these pics of both the bottom and top limb tips? There might be a problem on the bottom if the user places the bottom tip on the ground. Could possibly break it off. Horn nocks on ELBs is socketed so that isn't a problem. I've done these type of tip overlays on selfbows with good results. 

[Kirkll]

Kirk, I don't know much about glass bows but what I learned when I made a few ELBs was as long as the string groove is below the bow tip and not at or beyond there shouldn't be a problem. I think they look cool. The excess length may take away from the performance some(probably not that much). Are these pics of both the bottom and top limb tips? There might be a problem on the bottom if the user places the bottom tip on the ground. Could possibly break it off. Horn nocks on ELBs is socketed so that isn't a problem. I've done these type of tip overlays on selfbows with good results.

I didn’t do a set of these Pat. I had an extra limb from a recent fireworks expo I thought I’d play with using some phenolic just to walk through the process here.

Could you give me an example of a socketed application Pat?  I can see the value of the tip on the ground impact being a possible hazard.   Thanks, Kirk

[Pat B]

Kirk, the ELBs and war bows have have their limb tip about 1/2"x1/2" and tapered to a conical point. I used a 1/2" spade bit and ground it from the back corners to the tip in a triangular shape and used it to drill a conical hole in the horn for the socket and fitted them to the bow tips. For the bow tip I traced the ground bit on the tip and shaped to fit the socketed horn tip. Is that confusing enough. I can take a pic of the modified 1/2" spade bit if that would help.

[Mad Max]

Bamboo backed Osage

[Kirkll]

Kirk, the ELBs and war bows have have their limb tip about 1/2"x1/2" and tapered to a conical point. I used a 1/2" spade bit and ground it from the back corners to the tip in a triangular shape and used it to drill a conical hole in the horn for the socket and fitted them to the bow tips. For the bow tip I traced the ground bit on the tip and shaped to fit the socketed horn tip. Is that confusing enough. I can take a pic of the modified 1/2" spade bit if that would help.

No need Pat.... I get the concept now.... Grinding a spade bit to match an arrow tapering tool might be a great way to pull that off with good accuracy.....

But.... I think i'm going to stick with this scarf joint and just shorten the point up a bit like this...Its about 2 5/8" in total length now. I may thin the depth down a bit at the point a bit more from these photos.

It would take a hell of and impact to shear this 1 3/4" long scarf joint.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/46LAJox64sWwSQ5i8

[Pat B]

Yeah Kirk, I think a horn tip, like in the ELBs would be hard to work out on a glass bow and it's not necessary. The scarf jointed tip overlay is a tried and true method.

[Pat B]

Kirk, this is the reshaped 1/2" spade bit I made for horn tips for ELBs.

[Kirkll]

Thanks Pat…. That looks like it would work on an ELB style stave. 

To incorporate that type of socket joint on  a glass backed bow, you would need to do a two step process with overlays on the back and belly of the tip to get the round shape first, then do the socket. I’m thinking it wouldn’t be worth the extra time and materials, but it could be done I suppose.

Hey Mark,   What is the red string attached to hole in the tip on the double string notch tip you posted?        Kirk

[Mad Max]

Hey Mark,   What is the red string attached to hole in the tip on the double string notch tip you posted?        Kirk

When you un string the bow it keeps the other tip loop from coming off.
Brace height is always set.
A good many selfbow guy's do this

You should have Buffalo horn in your mailbox.

[B-JS]

I made several bows with Horn Tips in my beginnings.
No issues with that.
And great Looks If finished with oil.
Also made some with "vegan ivory"... cool stuff.

[Kirkll]

Never heard of Vegan Ivory before. I’m almost afraid to ask where that comes from.

Is that photo the finished product tip?  The ramp on those overlays look pretty angular with sharp edges….    Kirk

[mmattockx]

When you un string the bow it keeps the other tip loop from coming off.

Where is that string tied off to?


Mark

[B-JS]

Never heard of Vegan Ivory before. I’m almost afraid to ask where that comes from.

Tagua Nut


Is that photo the finished product tip?  The ramp on those overlays look pretty angular with sharp edges….

one of my First bows, but still Shooting with No issues. Smooth Transitions in the Tips May be nice but Not necessary
    Kirk

[Mad Max]

When you un string the bow it keeps the other tip loop from coming off.

Where is that string tied off to?


Mark

Just below the loop, the loop is still around the limb.