A First

[simk]

Folks
made my first FG bow.....this after around 200 bows made from natural materials. curiosity made me crossing that red line now
I made the exact same bow and used the exact same process as I do for my lamineted woodies. Yes, I wanted to compare the bow with my woodies.
Yes it wasn't too complicated.
However I really don't feel comfortable with that glass dust - in fact I quickly learned to hate it. Wherever it gets in contact with my skin it started itching badly  - almost felt allergic. It was a pain. Now planning to make a few more in difffrerent design, again just out of curiosity and to gather more experience. Don't think I will stick with it - it just does not feel good to me.

Still I have a question: How do I remove glue leftovers from the glass? Can I sligthly sand and polish to get a clean surface or will this leave uneven look (black glass)? When glueing the tips with CA i didnt cleane all the leftovers 100%..... Thanks!
Cheers
Simon

[Stagmitis]

Black glass is the worst for showing imperfections- needs to be completely sanded all glue removed- I usually go 150,220,320 before finish- I built a downdraft table to sand- if you don’t have dust collection do it outside- even so I would nitrile gloves if you’re sensitive and a respirator

[simk]

Thanks for that Stagmitis! I will try to remove that glue as you said.
I have a dust collector on my beltsander. Started the sanding with respirator but no gloves. Then quickly put the nitrils on 😀 then my forehead got itchy 🤪
The next day the itching went on as soon as i put on my contaminated workshop clothing. No fun 😬 think I will need full body armour for the next one.
Downdraft table for sure would be great. Did you construct and mount this on yoursander yourself or was it included when you bought it? I'd be interested in more info, maybe a few pics. Thank you!
Cheers Simon

[Stagmitis]

I built this bench and incorporated the downdraft which is connected to my dust collector- it’s my lifeline when final finishing /sanding glass

[simk]

how cool is that - thanks for the pic!

[garyschuler]

Brilliant idea. I may have to borrow it, or modify my table to such a system. !!

[Stagmitis]

You’re welcome Simon- have at it Gary!
The box underneath is 1x6 frame with an angled panel starting at 2” on one end and ending at 5.5 to fit the port for the hose- make sure you caulk all seams- also while the pegboard works smaller and more holes would increase suction- one day I may revamp the top but it works well now

[Kirkll]

Folks
made my first FG bow.....this after around 200 bows made from natural materials. curiosity made me crossing that red line now
I made the exact same bow and used the exact same process as I do for my lamineted woodies. Yes, I wanted to compare the bow with my woodies.
Yes it wasn't too complicated.
However I really don't feel comfortable with that glass dust - in fact I quickly learned to hate it. Wherever it gets in contact with my skin it started itching badly  - almost felt allergic. It was a pain. Now planning to make a few more in difffrerent design, again just out of curiosity and to gather more experience. Don't think I will stick with it - it just does not feel good to me.

Still I have a question: How do I remove glue leftovers from the glass? Can I slightly sand and polish to get a clean surface or will this leave uneven look (black glass)? When glueing the tips with CA i didn't clean all the leftovers 100%..... Thanks!
Cheers
Simon

Sorry to hear that you are so sensitive to fiberglass dust. But... what you will find with FG backed limbs is that the longevity and durability is much higher than all wood bows, and they are not effected by humidity and extreme weather conditions as much.

When i was working in the boat building industry where there was a LOT of fiberglass work to be done, All of the fiberglass workers wore full coveralls over their clothing and used masking tape at the sleeves to seal their gloves and keep the dust coming up their sleeves. Some used a similar technique wearing a Balaclava similar to this.

https://www.grainger.com/product/34K490?gucid=N:N:PS:Paid:MS:CSM-2295:TVRYAD:20501231&gclid=27132b871e2b1f39a3d14d4858d757ab&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=27132b871e2b1f39a3d14d4858d757ab&gclid=27132b871e2b1f39a3d14d4858d757ab&gclsrc=3p.ds

At breaks, lunch time, and the end of the day they used air pressure and a vacuum to remove the dust particles.    Good luck to you on your transition.

[Longcruise]

Just reading the description of your reactions to the glass dust I think you are particularly sensitive to it and maybe outright allergic.

I get some itch from the dust.  I sand outdoors and often in shorts and a short sleeve shirt.  There is some minor itch but a shower completely eliminates the problem. 

Only thing I can think to say is to get covered up like Kirkl suggests and be cautious.

Nice looking bow.  I have a soft spot for actual "traditional" long bows. 

How are you getting glue on the glass??  Are you taping the glass before lay up?  I tape them and never have glue on the glass.

[Kirkll]

I haven't used masking tape on my glass or carbon backing for many many years.... If you  wipe your glass clean with a bit of lacquer thinner on a rag before wrapping it in plastic, there is no need for masking tape. any epoxy getting on the glass easily sands off anyway. Cooking masking tape on a limb is not fun to remove.

as far as sanding glass goes.. i typically use 80/120/220  for finish. But going down to 180 is fine too.

[Longcruise]

Frog Tape!  Peels right off. 

[Kirkll]

Frog Tape!  Peels right off.

Besides the tape coming off hard, which may not be the case for Frog tape. You have the issue of the tape curling up while grinding the limbs width profile and loosing your line.

What i came up with that works excellent is a method of using a limb profile pattern, and spray painting the limb profile on the glass. When shaping the width profile on an edge sander this has the advantage of seeing the shape of the limb and leaving it a touch wide for adjustment purpose without messing with tape.

Here are some photos how i get my limb profile on my limbs after the limbs are mounted on a TD bow that were slightly off center after mounting. The straight edge allows geting the limbs perfectly straight once mounted.

Hope this may be helpful to some...  Kirk

[Stagmitis]

Kirk the tape does curl up but I’ll knock it down a few times with a file and keep profiling to a virgin line:)

[Kirkll]

Kirk the tape does curl up but I’ll knock it down a few times with a file and keep profiling to a virgin line:)

I did the same thing myself the first year until I came up with the pattern idea, and never looked back. No layout, no muss , no fuss. Find center line, center up the hole on my limb bolt, and even the string nock location is there after I spray it.  I use patterns for my risers too, and always keep the limb bolts in the same location. It’s a pretty consistent system….. but… to each his own bro!

What do you think of that bamboo I sent ya?      Kirk

[Stagmitis]

Kirk- My bows are 68” on average” - I lay out each time because I trust the lines I draw- had templates in the past warp(doesn’t take much) then it becomes a Sh—t show to get them straight! Bamboo is the best I’ve seen in years-I think I need more:)

[garyschuler]

When I profiled
Limbs with template lines on the taped limbs, I would grind until just before the curled tape became an issue. I would either sand which did not always produce a clean cut that I wanted. So I would take a sharp knife and cut at an angle along the limb. Literally shaving off the tape, leaving a crisp clean edge of tape at the limb edge. It made my lines much easier to see and did not leave the rough edge of tape on the limb. However it takes a very sharp knife and maintaining the correct angle. I used a short sweeping motion when cutting. Doing a short section at a time. If you did not maintain the correct bangle, you could cut in the edge of the limb, causing a long sliver. But generally you would still have more profile sanding to do yet. Really was not ever an issue, but could happen. Made grinding limb profiles fast for me and made clean limb edges when done without the glue goop and rough tape edges that would tear the taped. Most taped limbs, the tape would peel off in one long piece down to the riser.

[Pat B]

Simk, when I was a kid(1950-60) you could order "itching powder" from the back of comic books. Itching powder in fact was finely ground fiberglass. They also sold "Jack's Magic Beans", kudzu seeds.     
 I only built one fiberglass bow and it was from a Bingham kit. It failed before I ever got a string on it. Never tried again plus after working on surfboards back then and boats in the 1980s I didn't like working with fiberglass.

[simk]

Simk, when I was a kid(1950-60) you could order "itching powder" from the back of comic books. Itching powder in fact was finely ground fiberglass. They also sold "Jack's Magic Beans", kudzu seeds.     
 I only built one fiberglass bow and it was from a Bingham kit. It failed before I ever got a string on it. Never tried again plus after working on surfboards back then and boats in the 1980s I didn't like working with fiberglass.

Now that is really cool idea PatB - My kids now will happily bring all my fiberglass powder to shool 
Yeah they didnt know better in the ancient times - but for sure we also don't know the long term effects of all that stuff we use today as a matter of course....
Still hesitating to make one more glassbow - it just doesen't overly attract me....
Thanks everybody for the interesting thoughts.
and yes Kirkil, using a template to cut out the bows is a great thing - have mine for long time already. However I started cutting out the different lams even before glueup -- to me it feels it sperads the reflex more natural when the lams already have that width-taper. (yes, I dont use a rigid/full caul for my glueups - only the grip and the fades are forced into a caul. Then I just induce the amount of reflex I want on the tips then let the limbs find their natural shape temselves - this gives me a very natural shape of reflex that corresponds with the full draw profile and evenly speads the load all over the limb)

[Kirkll]

Never heard of someone doing width profile on laminations before a lay up. And it sounds kinda scary just letting limb tips just “ find their natural shape themselves.”
And not using a full length form.

Using fiberglass backing, it holds the shape of the form extremely well once that epoxy has cured. If any limb twist is built into that layup, you are going to have a serious fight getting it tracking correctly. Fiberglass backed limbs are not manipulated the same as an all wood bow. But long bow limbs are pretty forgiving……. Good luck with that….


Kirk

[simk]

...well Kirkil, teached most of it myself here and ended up doing things a little different .
apart of the itchy dust I didn't see much difference to wood when making that glassbow.
Biggest difference is that you need to be very careful with tiller on a wooden bow and thats where the "natural reflex" comes into play - glass on the other hand will tolerate just anything. Other difference was, I didn't tiller anything on that glassbow, whereas I always do some tiller-adjustments to the woodies. last but not least i made it 9mm instead of 13mm thick for the same weight. I dont see twist in my limbs - just gotta work with square material.
I like the results and so do my customers.  Multiple national championships and records against all these glassy longbows 
cheers