Fred Bear and pods??

[Dave Lay]

any one read MR James book " 45 unforgettable bowhunters!" ? I was very disappointed to read the section on Fred Bear and where he was in favor of using "pods" (drug tipped arrows)  and a few of the quotes from Fred  that were noted were shocking to say the least.
 ... Its the first I have heard this and assume its true, Over all this section was very much  pro Fred bear, but The author tells good and bad on all the folks in the book....

[jeff w]

This came up a while back.   Fred actually held a patent on a pod---although he is not the inventor of it.   Personally, I think that Fred felt that a sharp broadhead was plenty and the pod was not really needed based on what I have read.  You may have thought if he was more in favor of it, he would have promoted it more in his writings, catalogs, etc.   The way I look at it, many things were tried in the early days of 'modern bowhunting'.   Some things worked and some didn't, but they didn't know until someone gave it a try.

[Gary Logsdon]

Jeff is on the right track concerning this subject.  I knew Fred personally.  The man had a heart of gold and considered himself one of the luckiest men in the world.  20th century archery pioneers like Fred considered many options when it came to effectively taking big game animals. They did it the hard way, through trial and error. He paved the trails for much of what we take for granted today and inspired countless thousands through his books and films.  He is THE REASON I took up the challenge of the simple bow and arrow.

[Dave Lay]

Gary, me to! Fred was (is) my hero and who got alot of us into bowhunting, guess it just shocked me as I have never heard that before. I am sure you are right  things were diffrent and new back then..

[Danny Roberts]

Did he tell about the part where Howard Hill supposedly tied some of the African game up to shoot in Tembo. Always wondered about that.

[joe skipp]

Fred was on the first bowhunt in Mississippi when the pod was introduced. I'm not sure if he used the pod in Africa though....

[PAPALAPIN]

You have to keep in mind the times of evolving bowhunting.  Yes Fred di experiment with the pod.  The first model was a simple rubber baloon like slip on.  The powder was poured in and sat behing the droadhead.  One problem with the early models was that the rubber was weak.  When shot from a heavy bow (Fred usually shot a 60# which was considered heavy back them), the pod would open as soon as the arrow was released simly because of inertia.  There are some of b\\Freds hunting videos where you can see a "puff" right out in front of his bow as the arrow leaves.  Guess what that was.

I fon;t fault Papa Bear for giving it a chance, any more than I fault Allen or Jennings for experimenting with all those pullys and cables.  Look where that led.  It is called progress and it comes from trying new things.

I tried the po, well the sliding sleve anyway.  It was very effective with a pour hit that did not cut any vital organs.  It was most effective when a deer was hit in heavy muscle likr the rear quarter.

Then the ethical issues started to rise.  Being able to harvest a deer with a poor hit would encourage bow hunters to not worry about a good clean kill shot tot he vitals.

To be continued if anyone is interested...

[Ken Sorg]

Plain and simple, with the authors book he has tried to add contraversy to certain chapters to gain sales just as they do in the tabloids. When I seen the chapter of Ted Nugent being one of the greatest bowhunters, and the slamming of Roger Rothaar, I knew it would be a waste of money to buy it and now I here of Papa Bears pro's and con's,,,,,,,,,,,Give me a break. Maybe G.Fred could read the writing on the wall when he ditched P&Y.

[Tom Phillips]

I believe in my Fred Bear binder I have article written by Fred B. about his thoughts on the pod.

As for Howard Hill tieing up critters in Africa,watch the Leopard scene and the grass move as the Leopard runs !! Who was the guy who got to tie up the cat ??

[J-dog]

Like anyhting else, he saw something new and tried it. Not a thing wrong with it )trying something new) now pods were a dumb idea that came and went.

flinger?? Nuge is not the best bowhunter??????????? LOL

J

much sarcasm in that last statement! Yall have a good one.

[bowdude]

[WidowEater]

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

[George D. Stout]

There were quite a few who tried the pod back in the 1970's...Dan Quillian being another one.  Dan even wrote and article about using the hypo-arrow, the predecessor to the pod.  Fred talked about it in one of his books; he dismissed the need for it after a few test runs.

Howard Hill was an actor in Hollywood, as well as an archer of World note.  The 1950's Hollywood did everything they could to get an interesting movie, so I'm not surprised at what they may have done.  To bad mouth Howard Hill for those Hollywood escapades shows how distant we have become from our own history, and how ignorant we are of what life really was like before we experts entered the fray.  It's pretty cowardly to speak ill of the dead.

[Terry Green]

What George said to a ' T '

[TonyW]

The first legend of poisoned arrows was probably Hercules' sixth labor. Hercules and his quiver of arrows tipped with the hydra's venom (probably snake venom) were used to kill the Stymphalian Birds. These murderous birds lived around Lake Stymphalos. Their claws and beaks were sharp as metal and their feathers flew like darts. Hercules scared them out of their nests with a rattle and then killed them with the poison arrows he had made from the Hydra's blood.

Much later, in Homer's Iliad, Paris shot Achilles in the heel with a poisoned arrow.

In other words, to shoot a poisoned arrow, you don't need a pod, you need poison. It is nonsense to say Fred Bear promoted this concept, and it was completely ethical for him to investigate an invention that could have effected his industry.

[Molson]

It's well documented the hypo and subsequent pod were being experimented with by wildlife biologists in several states through the 60's into the early 70's. It was even legal in Mississippi. Bowhunters didn't come up with this idea, scientists did. Fred was called upon to assist in these trials because of who he was.

Succinylcholine chloride was effective...very effective.  Equally effective at killing people.  And people being people...well...you get the picture.

The point is, you and I have the benefit of hindsight due to the acts (positive and negative) of those who came before.  The fact that you even know pods are a bad idea is reason enough to thank these pioneers for saving you from making the same mistakes.

[jeff w]

Can anyone tell me which Fred Bear films shows the "puff of smoke" coming off the arrow when he shoots?   Any other "evidence" this is a pod being used?

If he did use the pod, especially in some of the films, why didn't he just come out and say it.   Most of these were filmed in the 50's and 60's--so there wasn't very many(if any) preconceived ideas about their use at the time.

Not saying he may not have looked into their use and possibly experimented with them, but one thing I always took away from Fred's films and books was the importance of a razor-sharp broadhead, even back in the his early days this was frequently mentioned.   I fail to see where he was much of a proponent for the pod.

Excellent point Molson--"you and I have the benefit of hindsight..............."

[marsh chicken]

Pods were never legal in Mississippi. The Fish and Game Dept choose not to prosecute hunters with drugged tipped arrows. It is against Federal Law to have SSC without a prescription as if it were any other drug. Since it's only used in Surgery there would be no need for anyone to legally have it.

[jeff w]

For anyone intersted Fred's patent on his pod was filed Nov 25, 1968 and patent granted on Feb 23, 1971.    The patent number is 3565435.

[KSdan]

For what it is worth. . . the history of archery is not the history of faultless men or something sacred.  It is the history of real men, some great stories, and at times- immoral judgment and actions.  History is what it is!  

Let's not try to idolize that which should not be. If we do, our finite idols will sooner or later tumble!!