I asked a computer to explain bowyering to me

[TrenchFoot]

First, Hi, I'm new here. I'm a long time bow hunter and I'm coming up on needing to replace my hoyt compound, and I've found that I'm bored of compound bows. I started looking at Robertson and others and then that part of my brain that would rather build than buy lit up and when you combine that with my personality, I'm definitely going to build my own. I went in the woods a cut a hickory down and split a stave out, quick dried it, got it formed and floor tillered, made a flemish twist string, went to string it and it broke. Now with that 3 weeks of work out the window im looking it to laminates. Well, I've been having trouble answering some lingering questions that I have had about how someone decides on materials, thicknesses, tapers, design when building a form to a preferred weight (there are a few good threads I've found on here but I still have seemingly very technical questions that I havn't found answers to.

So I asked perplexity's deep research AI to find the data and generate a report. Now, since the info (if valid) would be super useful to have around here, I would like to check it against the centuries of combined experience on this forum....please. Legends Assemble? How good is this answer? Any issues with it?

This is what I asked:
I am interested in bow making, specifically laminated bow making either with fiberglass back and belly or all wood construction. I am having difficulty finding information and data around how bow design and lamination materials (such as fiberglass, different core woods, veneer woods, etc.) and their lengths, thicknesses, taper rates, and other factors, specifically around how a bowyer chooses materials for a bow design. Please act as a research assistant/professional bowyer and gather data for me that provides insight into the material selection and bow laminating process such that i can begin to effectively design multiple bow types in the future.

Since the reply is so long, I'm going to attach it as a pdf rather than pasting it here, but to me it follows pretty well based on what I've read and watched so far. Super interesting stuff

[Roy from Pa]

https://www.3riversarchery.com/traditional-bowyers-bible-complete-set-of-books.html

[dbeaver]

If you want to get that technical before you build your first bow itd better string up nice and hit perfect weight. 

Do you know what went wrong with your hickory project? this bowmaking thing aint just the collection of randomly correlated percentages making examples of the material properties. What i read didnt teach much of the why behind the parameters or what changing one of the parameters does to the others. Let me ask you this, what did you glean from that PDF?

[Crooked Stic]

I would suggest doing one of Kenny's designs see if you like bow making and go from there.

[TrenchFoot]

If you want to get that technical before you build your first bow itd better string up nice and hit perfect weight. 

Do you know what went wrong with your hickory project? this bowmaking thing aint just the collection of randomly correlated percentages making examples of the material properties. What i read didnt teach much of the why behind the parameters or what changing one of the parameters does to the others. Let me ask you this, what did you glean from that PDF?

I'm pretty sure i had a hinge for the most part, may have mistakenly thought i hadnt violated growth rings as well....

mostly broad concepts , like as how taper profiles affect stacking, how riser to limb length ratio affects draw weight, etc. Then the more practical things like, it seems like all things being equal i cant expect to add roughly 10# by using thicker glass, further poundage using different class glass but then sacrificing hand shock and sounds (if im interpretting that correctly) and just generally use some things instead of others at why things are put together the way they are.

I would suggest doing one of Kenny's designs see if you like bow making and go from there.

I plan on it, im just curious by nature and thought this might interest people if maybe they had my same mindset

[OldRawhide42]

This can be a very deep hole to dig.  The more I learn the more I find out how little I know. But it is fun digging .

[Noah70]

I would suggest doing one of Kenny's designs see if you like bow making and go from there.

 X2 !!  That would be the absolute best way to start!!

[Kirkll]

Reading through that long winded attachment i found some down right bogus information. One such statement was using a 300 degree heat gun to tiller a glass backed bow...      i would highly recommend not trying that one...

The other one was "the use of carbon backing reduces hand shock"...????   That is ridiculous.

but i have to admit, the opening paragraph was a rather well worded summary of the topic.

My advise to the OP is start out with a simple 1 pc long bow design with a mild R/D shape and get the feel for the process first.  spend some time reading different threads on this forum and take it all with a grain of salt...

Until you have actually built a few of these things, shot them, and tested them, you wont really see the meaning in a lot of the details.  ya gotta learn the terminology used by most bowyers, then sift through the different philosophy and see which one appeals to you. Then you can either drink the cool aid, or start your own philosophy...   Good sport!

[TrenchFoot]

Reading through that long winded attachment i found some down right bogus information. One such statement was using a 300 degree heat gun to tiller a glass backed bow...      i would highly recommend not trying that one...

The other one was "the use of carbon backing reduces hand shock"...????   That is ridiculous.

but i have to admit, the opening paragraph was a rather well worded summary of the topic.

My advise to the OP is start out with a simple 1 pc long bow design with a mild R/D shape and get the feel for the process first.  spend some time reading different threads on this forum and take it all with a grain of salt...

Until you have actually built a few of these things, shot them, and tested them, you wont really see the meaning in a lot of the details.  ya gotta learn the terminology used by most bowyers, then sift through the different philosophy and see which one appeals to you. Then you can either drink the cool aid, or start your own philosophy...   Good sport!

Yeah, i agree. If it wasn't clear, i just thought it was interesting. The point of posting it was to get some reaction to it. I don't know what's BS and whats not, but someone here does

[Kirkll]

Going though the whole process of building the forms correctly, setting up either an air hose system or other methods used for clamping, grinding taper laminations,  and milling different wedges used with a high rate of accuracy is the first step regardless of what design you choose. 

You could start out with a straight form if you like just to get the feel for it....I think you will find there are a lot of little things, and tricks to learn to make them come together smoothly. 

Just learning how to get the things straight with uniform width profiles is one of the first things. Then how to shape your tip overlays, check the tracking, and adjusting the tiller using glass backing is the next step. Learning how to determine the brace height at a comfortable 6.75- 7.5"  and what string length to use is another little thing that needs attention...

These are the little things needed before you just get a bow that shoots an arrow.... Then you start learning about how to hit the draw weight correctly, and looking closer at the way the limbs are bending and how it shoots. Is there any hand shock or vibration after the shot?  How is the cast with 10 gpp arrows?  What can you do next to get higher performance, or get rid of hand shock?

Once you get to this stage it starts getting interesting.....   Good luck...   Kirk

[bownarra]

Well I've read most of that AI/ouija board 'bowyering' file.....umm so many incorrect things in there I would chuck it in the bin. Stuff like this is a complete waste of time.
Buy the Trad Bowyers Bibles and learn from them.
Forget the internet everything you need is in those books. Until you know the basics you can't judge the quality of the information some random off the internet is giving you.
You broke a hickory stave then gave up and went down another avenue. Go cut some more hickory. Find out what mistake you made. Try again. No computer is going to help you there. Perseverance is needed.

[Roy from Pa]

https://www.3riversarchery.com/traditional-bowyers-bible-complete-set-of-books.html

[Kirkll]

I collected and read all 4 of the TBB collection when I first jumped into bow building and it has some excellent info, but is primarily suited to building bows with natural materials.  Excellent reading material though. I think I may still have those books too.

One you get into building glass or carbon backed bows, you are not going to get much out of the TBB series to help you. The concepts are the same, but the technique used is totally different. The shape of your forms, laminations used, different taper rates, wedges, and limb profile all pre determines your tiller except fine tuning. It’s a whole different ball game than wood bows….

[Buemaker]

Traditional Bowyers of America by Dan Bertalan is a good book. Came out in the 1980ies some time.

[dbeaver]

I second traditional bowmakers of America, picked up a copy on the auction site