Do I have to bareshaft??

[rastaman]

Rod gave a great suggestion with the Saran wrap...would have never thought of that.  That's why i come to this site.  
Randy

[Stumpknocker]

I vote bareshaft, but I think it's kinda fun.  I keep one wood, one aluminum and one carbon to play with using different point weights.  The carbon and alum. have a cap wrap, but obviously no feathers.  It's pretty cool to see the effects of different point weights on different arrows.  I haven't tried paper tuning, but probably should just for curiousity.  Guess the most important thing for me, though, is to put my first arrow where I want to.

[JimmyC]

I have a friend who doesn't bareshaft...........
he's starting to grow hair on his palms and his vision isn't what it used to be!!!!!!

             HEE hee...

Me, I am a bareshaft planner (per OL's directions which can be found on A&H's website).

Good luck,

Jim

[Lashbow]

What is a good way to add the weight up front before buying the points.
can I foot a piece of aluminum where I need the weight ?
I can dab a little hot melt to hold it in place.
would 4" of footed aluminun effect spine other than the weight?

[Daddy Bear]

I can see the benefits of bare shaft tuning for target points, but:

I've never understood how anyone could think that having perfect flight from a bare shaft with a field point would have anything to do with perfect flight from a fletched shaft with a broadhead. It's a guess at best the effects on flight that the fletching and broadhead would have over and above the bare shaft with field point. You may come close, but the only way to find the best flight is by loosing arrows with the same fletching and broadhead you hunt with.

I'm of the opinion that when you do find that sweet spot with feathers and broadhead, most any other point in that weight range will fly great as well. I do not think this is possible (outside of blind luck) when you put the cart before the horse.

Daddy Bear

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by Daddy Bear:
I've never understood how anyone could think that having perfect flight from a bare shaft with a field point would have anything to do with perfect flight from a fletched shaft with a broadhead.

Sort answer: Because it works.

If I bareshaft tune my bow, fletched arrows with broadheads of the same weight as my field points will impact the same group as my target arrows.

[Steve O]

I agree 100% with Jason.

In fact I will go one further.  If your arrows are tuned properly to your bow, you can shoot broadheads with a bare shaft.  Now, a VERY, VERY accomplished hunter/archer told me this and I was skeptical...I went home and tried it.  One very slight nock adjustment later, I was hitting exactly what I wanted at 20 yards with my bare carbons and BIG Snuffers.

The "old" guys with an open mind at our club that I have shown how to bare shaft are amazed with the flight they get now.

Another interesting fact...my bare shaft tuned arrows shoot great paper tuning holes.  Different method, same results.  

So, that was the long way of saying you don't HAVE to, but why not invest an hour and  KNOW  you are right rather than guess?

[katman]

I am with Jason, once my arrows are finely tuned using OL's bareshaft method (although I go out to 30 yds) the broadheads hit with field points.

Lashbow, if you put a long piece of aluminum shaft on the carbon you may increase the dynamic spine by having a shorter working arrow. I have footed with 3/4" on the axis but since it does not extend past the brass  hit insert it does not stiffen the arrow but slightly weakens it by adding weight (very little weakening). Get the points they are pretty inexpensive at 3 rivers.

[Daddy Bear]

[Daddy Bear]

Originally posted by Daddy Bear:
Attempts to obtain consistent flight with a bare shafted arrow w/ a broadhead is not aerodynamically sound. The broadhead will act as a wing without the stability of fletching on the back end. Most would be hard pressed obtaining good results shooting arrows from a machine using that method much less shooting a stickbow off-hand.

It is moot how well the field pointed bare shaft flies from your hunting bow since the intended end result is to use a broadhead and fletching on game. In addition, adding the fletching to the rear of your bare shaft will change the arrows FOC and the weight will change the resulting paradox (stiffness/weakness). Changing from a field point to a hunting broadhead can result in the same changes to the front end as many hunting broadheads have their weight distributed differently over the length of the head as compared to a standard point of the same weight.

No matter how you estimate any changes in flight due to the changes made from a field pointed bare shaft to a fletched/broadhead hunting arrow, it would be a guess at best. The only way to confirm any proper flight is to actually loose the completed hunting arrow at a distance to confirm groups. I'm of the opinion that 20 or even 30yards is on the short end of such tests. I prefer at least 40 to 50yards as a good bench mark. I'm a firm believer in choosing the broadhead for the game you seek and then building the arrow around that broadhead. Once you confirm the desired flight at a distance, it is rather simple to find the same flight from a field point, judo, bludgeon, tiger claw, etc. That is how I skin this cat.

later
Daddy Bear

[Joseph]

My thoughts on bare shafting are this;  I don't think that there are very many people that can shoot a traditional bows consistently enough for it to work.  I started shooting bows in 1981 seriously and from what I remember bare shaft tuneing started with the advent of short compounds and using releases.  One comment that has always stuck in my mind was made by Paul Brunner and it makes a lot of sense!  You don't hunt with a featherless arrow so why tune with one or words to that effect.  I have always just eyeballed my arrow flight or had someone else look over my shoulder with excellent results.  One time just to see what all the fuss was about I stripped the feathers off of a perfectly good arrow to see if it would group with the feathered ones and it did right out to 30 yards.  Maybe I don't have a consistent enough release or it is because I shoot wood arrows but I have never seen a need to bare shaft and I have also never had a problem with poor arrow flight with broadheads or shooting through a lot of critters but like many other things there are 10 different ways to skin a cat!  Joseph

[Bullfrog 1]

One thing to remember is FORM. If your form and release is crappy. Bare shaft shooting is a BIG waste of time. You must have good form and a good consistent release.  BILL

[swampbuck]

Gotta agree with bullfrog

For a beginner bareshafting most likly will be a waste of time since form has not yet developed

It is a good tool that works,it can also be confusing if your unknowingly getting a bounce off the shelf for whatever reason.When bareshafts fly well with fletched shafts you can bet your BH's will be in there too

OK do ya hafta LOL No I'd say a big nonvented 2 blade like the magnus2 1.5" wide ones will tell ya plenty without bareshafting.Your still using the planing method except your letting the BH steer.Impact adjustments between FP's and BH's are the same as they would be for bareshafting.

That last method is also in OL Adcocks tuning page

Good luck

[Stumpknocker]

Bareshafting is not some zen mystery that requires a quiet mind and flawless form.  I'm an average shot on most days, and I can flat tell the difference in flight on a GT5575 shooting 145 vs. 200.  The 145 shoots way too stiff and to shoot them I can see that I need weighted inserts or the 200 grain point.  I can sure see the 70-75 Douglas firs hit the target almost sideways because they're too weak, but the 80-85's shoot great.  I can shoot all these setups fletched, but why should I use less than optimal arrows for my bow?  Bareshafting just gives me more confidence that I'm shooting the best arrow for my setup, and I like that confidence.  It's not a mystery, nor is it that hard to do.  It can sometimes take a bit of trial and error, but you can always sell those extra arrows that are too stiff or weak right here.  Once you find what works best, stock up.  

Oh yeah..and if you don't bareshaft, then you're not traditional!  Just kiddin',   :p

[JOKER]

I have used a type of bareshaft tuning and it is great for getting you close without having to be a good shot or have great form (works for everyone).
 
First set the brace height to what is recomended for your bow, set nock hight to 4/8 or 5/8" and make sure your nocks fit the string (not to tight). The brace height and nock height can be fin tuned later.

Now, get a target with a consistent medium such as a layered block target or foam target that is not shot up. Stand 5 to 10 yds away and shoot into the target. If your arrows stick into the target sideways with the nock to the left (for a right hand shooter) your arrows are too week. if they are nock to the right your arrows are too stiff. when they are close they will drive into the target straight.

As far as the question "do I have to bareshaft??" No, you don't but you do have to tune somehow!! Not tuning your arrows to your bow is like not balencing the tires on your car. Steve

[swampbuck]

Almost forgot if ya do end up tuning using BH's to tune it could end up costing you more in the end than if ya just stripped one down in the first place unless your extra careful to shoot at differnt spots LOL

[Otto]

I never was a believer until I tried it.  Once I tried it I was amazed at how well it allowed me to tune an arrow to the bow.  It's very cool to watch a bare shaft fly deadnuts straight to the target from 30 yards.  Just add feathers and voila....no excuses for bad arrow flight.

[R H Clark]

From what I've seen most of the people that tell you bareshafting is a waste of time shoot either wood or aluminum.

If someone has enough experience shooting trad with wood and aluminum,they can probably just pick an arrow that will work fine.

Carbon however is a different story.With basically 3 shaft sizes to pick from they need to be tuned by length or point weight.If a guy doesn't have the experience to know how to get close with thoes limitations,bareshafting is a great tool.

[Steve O]

There is no magic "bullet"...

Sacrifice one of your broadheads and shoot it into a steel plate at 10 yards    :eek:  


 


and if it looks like this when you are done, you are close enough to tuned

[Lashbow]

Since I dont have my 250 field tips yet, if I bareshaft test with my current setup of 200 grain tips and it shoots the same as my feathers, does that mean the 250 grain will make it too weak, or is there a sweet spot that has a broader spectrum?