sharp?

[Biggie Hoffman]

Here's a little tip I've used for years.
Like Brian, I like to shoot every arrow once the broadhead is mounted before hunting with it. Over the years I've had maybe 3 that were flyers, so while that's 3 out of probably 2 thousand, I'm glad I do it. And, you can even sharpen them 1st.

Find a pond (one with no stumps!) and shoot them into the water, then just canoe around and pick em up. They'll dry off and all you need to do is clean the water off and apply some chapstick to the edges.

[Biggie Hoffman]

Here's a little tip I've used for years.
Like Brian, I like to shoot every arrow once the broadhead is mounted before hunting with it. Over the years I've had maybe 3 that were flyers, so while that's 3 out of probably 2 thousand, I'm glad I do it. And, you can even sharpen them 1st.

Find a pond (one with no stumps!) and shoot them into the water, then just canoe around and pick em up. They'll dry off and all you need to do is clean the water off and apply some chapstick to the edges.

[J-dog]

Widow eater I cut and pasted the below from Wikipedia, looking under "obsidian." Yeah it is hard to believe but research it on your own. I imagine they are outlawed as many other things are outlawed, one - not everyone could get them that sharp, and two - people not having knowledge of something (not directed at you, but gerneral public). They think stone and it is hard for modern people to believe something occuring in nature can be better than something built or designed by humans. Most of the time the poeple making law are not bowhunters. LOL

"Current use

Obsidian is used in cardiac surgery, as well-crafted obsidian blades have a cutting edge many times sharper than high-quality steel surgical scalpels, with the edge of the blade being only about 3 nanometres wide [4]. Even the sharpest metal knife has a jagged, irregular blade when viewed under a strong enough microscope. When examined under an electron microscope an obsidian blade is still smooth and even. One study found that obsidian produced narrower scars, fewer inflammatory cells, and less granulation tissue in a group of rats.[5]"

Have a good one

J

[Mr.Magoo]

I'd guess most of Wikipedia comes from guys still living in their parents basement.  Frankly, most of these obsidian scalpel tales are like story of the guy who wakes-up in a tub of ice missing a kidney.

One study I found said ...

"Each rat received two parallel 8-cm dorsal skin incisions, one with an obsidian scalpel and the other with a surgical steel scalpel (no. 15 blade). Data were analyzed by ANOVA, Tensile strength of the two wound types was not different at 7, 14, 21, and 42 days. Scar width, however, was significantly less in the obsidian wounds at 7, 10, and 14 days (p<0.005). At 21 days, scar width was not different in the two groups."

Which says basically no difference.

Another medical forum had this exchange regarding obsidian scalpels:

- "I am not a surgeon, but I do practice medicine, and I have never heard of this. Also, when I was in medical school, I never saw a single surgeon use or discuss them."

-  "I ended up e-mailing Dr. Green [a doctor who uses an obsidian knife to remove moles] and he wrote me back. He told me that there weren’t any FDA approved obsidian scalpels on the market to his knowledge and that he uses them at his own risk."

Oh well, back to tracking down the Chupacabra.

[J-dog]

Magoo?? your research found coincides with wikipedia, LOL a difference is a difference     . Guess alot of eople still live in their basements!  :D  

Back to the original question on sharpness. My only question was how can blades be claimed as hunt ready out of the package, when truly they are not? No problem I guess they will kill if put in the right place just like a feild point to the lungs. I just think it is teaching people wrong.

Good points by all, I was just wondering what everyone thought sharp was. Which I probably already knew anyway. To the manufacturers I hope top see sharper blades.

Later yall,

J

[L82HUNT]

J-Dog Silver Flames can be resharpened very well.  I use a KME Knife sharpener.  I dont no if its the steel they use are what, but they not only hold a edge better but take one to.

[Mr.Magoo]

No.  The report says there's really not a difference, in rats; no human studies.  Nor does it seem obsidian is being used in cardiac or eye surgery.  Just more internet junk.
----------------------
I was curious as to how the Silver Flames re-sharpen.  Several have said how super sharp they are new, but once they've been dulled I would have guessed they're only going to be as sharp as you can get a Zwickey, Ace, etc.

[WidowEater]

As I see it even if obsidian is just as sharp as steel they should still allow the stone points to be used in hunting.  

Thanks J-Dog I always can use a good education.

[ozarkcherrybow1]

Great thread! I've really enjoyed the response to it. Not sure which to do, get better at my knapping skills or become a better steel sharpener? Hmmmm....I'm thinking BOTH.
   Terry

[J-dog]

The obsidian thing is something I would love to learn, and someday will go after it. Maybe nto to hunt with but just for knowledge. Could I get one sharp enough for a surgeon to cut on me, doubt I would let him try it. But you never know, might lose my mind someday.

I think the surgeries I have heard of being done were by surgeons themselves recieving the surgery allowing the use of stone tools as experiments. If I remember my reading correctly. Like said, I dont think they sale obsidian scalpels at the surgery supply store, must be special order.

It was a good thread, what makes this site great.

Later yall,

J

ozark, there should be obsidian around you out there??

[amar911]

I have been sharpening knives of all types on a very frequent basis for 40+ years using the best available sharpening tools of the day. I can definitely state that the better steels often not only hold an edge better but also are easier to bring to a good edge when sharpening. I won't go into the science of it, but you should be able to imagine the grain structure and strength of various steels and be able to understand why a good quality steel would have both characteristics. I understand that Silver Flames use a 420 stainless steel that has proved itself for decades when used in knife blades. I currently favor S30V in my knife blades, but an arrowhead is more of a single use cutting tool before sharpening, while knives typically are not. So after a certain point (no pun intended) increasing the quality of the steel has diminishing returns, while cost of production increases astronomically. Just look at the difference in cost between a knife with an S30V blade as opposed to one made from 420 stainless and you will see what I mean. Heat treatment, blade design, grind, and polish are also very important, and it sounds like the Silver Flames have all that. I don't think you will find the same level of quality in a Zwickey, nor do most people want to pay the cost for the ultra high quality of a Silver Flame when it is generally not necessary for most jobs. For deer, any one of many good, moderately priced broadheads is fine. For Cape buffalo, I would use the absolute best that money could buy, no matter what the cost. Even at $75 an arrow (including a Silver Flame), which I heard one guy say he was paying, equipment is the cheap part of an African hunt. That is way too much for anyone to spend on the average deer hunt though, unless he has more money than he knows how to spend.