Heavy arrow guys, gotta ?

[rg176bnc]

My set up is 52#@26" Black Widow PSA.  Brand new.  My shafts are Heritage 150's appx. 28".  Their finished weight is right at 550 w/ a couple of screw in weights and field point.  If I add any more weights the spine changes enough to kill my accuracy.  I would like to get up to 650 or 700 grains as an elk or moose hunt is in the near future.

Short of buying or begging a set of 60# limbs I tought maybe if I went w/ the 250's I could add enough weight to get to where I want w/ good arrow flight?

The Widow boys said put the arrow where it belongs and it wont matter.  I just want to make the right decision now than regret it later.

Thanks in advance!!  Just for piece of mind Im gonna shoot Silver Flames.

[BLACK WOLF]

Silver Flames ROCK! Great broadhead!

A 550g. arrow from a 55lbs @ 26" bow is plenty for elk...especially with a good razor sharp broadhead like the Silver Flames.

Tuning your equipment properly will have a greater effect on penetration than going up in arrow weight or bow weight within reason.

I would fine tune what you have but if you will feel more confident in going heavier...than that can only benefit you...unless your accuracy suffers.

Ray  

[Horne Shooter]

Most of my regular set-up's are about 55-57# at my draw length.  I shoot CE 250's cut a little over 30" with a total arrow weight of around 610.
They fly fine and seem to penetrate very well.  I use STOS broadheads but (from what I hear) the silver flames are quite the stuff.  I think your current setup with the Silver Flame and a well tuned arrow would knock the snot out of anything in N. America....my .02

[Dave2old]

Here we go again ... and thanks for asking. Dr. Ashby says minimum of 650 grn. arrow weight for elk-sized game and bigger, and he shoots heavy, fast bows. The lighter/slower the bow, the heavier the arrow you need. Don't plan for what "can" work if everything goes just right. You'll have far too much invested, personally and financially, by the time a shot op comes to blow it on iffy gear. I shoot mid-50lb bows that are fast, and personally have found even 650 not enough (even with the best 2-blades) unless you get a perfect broadside shot and don't hit a rib going in, much less a scapula. That's because I demand double-lung and preferably pass-through penetration, producing aan animal that goes down within sight or hearing ... which, after too many heartbreaking "Oh shucks, it didn't go perfectly after all!" disasters, is all I can live with and not want to slap myself in the face. This year I'm shooting 57# of fast bow with 800grn.+ hickory arrows. I won't be able to shoot accuratly beyond 15 yards (though most younger stronger shooter who practice enough easily can), but getting close is what trad is about and when it happens, there will be no long bloodtrail to try to follow, and no heartbreak for the sin of wishful thinking. Afte years of paying attention, I now set personal ethical limits for elk/moose at 650 and 160 fps, assuming everything else Dr. Ed has proven about arrow makeup is carefully addressed. You asked, and that's the most honest I can say it, and no offense to anyone intended. Best luck and thanks again for asking. Dave  

P.S. I had a BW PSE and it was really fast and can easily handle heavy arrows at yoru weight. Noisy, but I wish I still had it.

[BLACK WOLF]

My personal experience with elk hunting and with the friends I bowhunt with have helped provide me with my personal conclusions.

The last bull I shot in 2006 was with a 512 g. Axis arrow out of a 62lbs. DAS recurve with a STOS broadhead...and that arrow went through the broadside of that elk's heart and lungs like a hot knife through butter unlike the bulls I shot the previous years.

My bull in 2005 was shot with a 720g. Grizzly Stik and was also shot broadside through the heart and only got 18" of penetration.

My very first bull was shot 1/4ing towards me through 1 lung and the liver with a 640 g. aluminum arrow and got 23" of penetration .

All the elk were shot within 15 and 20yrds. with arrows bareshaft tuned and with bows near the same performance and of draw weights between 62lbs and 69lbs.

My friend followed me with similar results and equipment choices.

His best penetration was with an Axis arrow using a Silver Flame broadhead...and his worst penetration was with a heavier Grizzly Stik using a Shkote broadhead.

My conclusion are:

Arrow weight alone won't make up for slightly different broadhead designs.

Broadhead design plays a bigger role than arrow weight within reason in an arrow's penetrating potential.

My STOS out performed both the Ribtek and Shkote of similar weight with a lighter arrow.

Arrow diameter can definitely affect penetration.

FOC can definitely affect penetration.

Speed can definitely affect penetration.

Arrow weight can definitely affect penetration.

Arrow tunage can definitely affect penetration.

Final conclusion...there are many factors that affect an arrow's penetrating potential and arrow weight isn't necessarily the most important or the one that creates the greatest penetration.

I don't have nearly the experience as Dr. Ashby has...but these are my personal experiences...and are my personal opinions.

I don't claim my conclusions to be absolute fact.

Ray    

[Dave2old]

Ray -- bravo!

[rg176bnc]

Thanks for the info guys, keep-em coming.  Dave I appreciate your valuable and blunt posts.  I bet your a hoot to hunt with.  Im not sure Im gonna shoot past 15 yards yet.  Thems big critters!!

[John3]

I put 1/4" poly rope (added exactly 100 grns)inside my 2216's for Moose. After dipping/cresting they weigh in at close to 700 grains. More than enough; plus my bow is quieter shooting them.

Try 1/8" poly in your carbons. In my experience the rope did NOT change spine on my shafts. Cheap and easy to do.  I cut to lenght, melt both ends and push into shaft with wire. I used a liberated wire coat hanger... LOL

John III

[katman]

The 250's with a heavier point should work for your setup, you will not only benefit from the heavier arrow (more mass and quieter) but also more foc. At 15 yards I don't think the extra weight would hinder accuracy once well tuned.  

John III, I would have expected adding 100 grains to the full length of the arrow would make it shoot stiff. Same if you added 100 grains to the string. Maybe your limbs handle a heavier arrow better than mine. Any time I have experimented with weighting the inside of the shaft the bareshaft showed stiffer and required more point weight or increasing the poundage slightly to tune.

[Traditional-Archer]

I shoot a silvertip.57#@26. The arrow I just tuned are carbon exspress rebel hunters weight foreward 6075. Cut to 27" ,100 grain brass insert, 200 grain razorcap broadheads. total weight was 640 grain. I then put a 5 grain weight toob cut to 38 grain crimped the sides so they would not slide front and back. Glued and set. they fly awesome. total 678 grain with a  25% FOC 6.75/27=.25-.50=-.25x100=25% FOC Look I started with a 29" arrow cutting it down 1/8" at a time to get the tuning right at 10 yard I bare shaft shot three arrows and moved back to 20 yards the fethered arrows hit the sme spot. They hit were you look and that is the ending goal for all of us I beleve right. Good luck. I got alot of my info from O.L web site and a friend here at trad. I think I got the idea of tuning  but check it out and see for yourself. Its fun, but it takes time to get it right. It took  half the day to get this arrow tuned for my bow.  

[rg176bnc]

I just took a 2 GT3555 I had and put a weight tube in it and 225 up front.  Put me right at 650gr.  Flew pretty good at 17 yards.  Think Im on the right track.  Have you shot a moose w/ your set up ye JDS?

[GameGetter]

Good shot placement and you will be OK.
JDS3, had some good info for you. I use to add wt. the same way

[SERGIO VENNERI]

I Totally agree with the Widow boys!

[WidowEater]

The Widow boys have never pointed me in the wrong direction either, but to decrease the margin of error in the elk woods I would have to at the very least heed the advice of the good Doctor.

[George D. Stout]

I have a lot of faith in what has been working for decades on big game.  Ten grains per pound of bow weight will get the job done and it won't be pure luck.  You can be too heavy as well as too light and frankly I think it's a little silly just to add weight just to add weight.

Dr. Ashby's results were mostly based on broadhead design on ultra-big game.  That doesn't mean that all of a sudden we can't hunt with what we have used for eons.  

Get yourself a good setup that will let you shoot accurately for more than seventeen yards. A well tuned 500 grain arrow will out penetrate an ill-flying, or lobbed 700 grain.  It's balance that gets it done;  adequate weight for the bow; perfect arrow flight; a good broadhead, and hitting where you're supposed to hit.

[RC]

Well said George.RC

[Richie Nell]

Of course a well placed arrow is what is needed.

But what would you rather have?  A well placed lighter arrow or a well placed heavier arrow with neither being TOO light or TOO heavy?  And by the way it is very possible to accurately shoot a heavy arrow.

Heavy, fast, sharp shot accurately.  Don't settle for anything less.

Richie

[BLACK WOLF]

Within reason...a well placed heavy arrow and a well placed lighter arrow will kill a deer the same. The deer is no more dead with the heavy arrow compared to the lighter arrow.

I believe it's about balance or making choices within reason.

A deer's chest cavity really doesn't require a lot of penetration to kill it where as an elk, moose or buffalo may require a little more.

I personally prefer an arrow at 8g./lbs. for all North American game species using between a 62 and 70lbs. bow. If I was to use a bow with a lighter draw weight, I might increase my arrow weight to be 9 or 10g./lbs.

I feel confident enough in my abilities to take a 40yrds. shot if I want to and a faster arrow decreases the effects of slight errors in yardage estimation...which isn't as critical if a hunter choses to keep their shooting range at 20yrds. or under.

I see nothing wrong with either side as long as they are making choices within reason and within their abilities. I don't believe either side is any smarter for choosing a heavier arrow over a lighter arrow or vice versa.

Research it and choose whatever gives you the most confidence whatever that may be. Life will teach you if you need to make a different choice or not.

Ray    

[outbackbowhunter]

I have used 1/4" pneumatic air line tube inside Gold tip carbons.

Its a very neat fit and for a 28" arrow added an extra 100 grains.

It will stiffen your dynamic spine slightly due to the extra weight, but a slightly heavier broadhead should bring that back right and give you a higher FOC.

I have heard that watering drip tube from a garden centre is an option also.

[Doug Treat]

I have had good penetration with heavy arrows and bad penetration with light arrows from 50# recurves and longbows on elk with all else being equal (same BH/bow).  My personal experience tells me to shoot 600+ for elk.