Hill Wesley carbon or no carbon?

[Gil Verwey]

I am in the process of ordering a new Wesley Special. I am thinking about getting the carbon on the back. Has anyone shot a Wesley with glass on the back and a Wesley with carbon. I have two wesleys with glass and like the way they shoot. I was wondering if the carbon felt different than the glass when drawing and after the shot.

Thanks
Gil

[Orion]

I had a Wesley made for me with carbon on the back (68 inches, 58#)and didn't particularly like it.  Ordered another at the same weight but two inches shorter (Actually a Big 5, 66 inches,and came out at 60#).  Really like the latter.  To me, the glass bow draws smoother and it feels faster.  Of course, it's a couple of pounds heavier than the Wesley.  The short of it is that I couldn't tell if the carbon added to the bow's performance.  

Don't know whether the difference in feel/stiffness is due to the carbon backing or the extra lamination or both.  Craig will tell you that the more laminations (and glue joints), the more limb memory.  Limb memory is another term for stiffness.  But that stiffness doesn't necessarily translate into performance.  For me, I've decided that I don't want 5 laminations in my limbs. That's why I now shoot Big 5s, and if the right Tembo comes along, I'll be snapping it up.

Probably not a lot of help to you, but for what it's worth, I honestly couldn't tell that a carbon back added anything to the bow's performance, and in fact, it made the bow feel stiffer on the draw to me.  On the other hand, $75 (the extra cost for a carbon backing) isn't a pile of money, and you may want to give it a try to decide for yourself. Good luck.

[Gil Verwey]

Thanks Jerry.

The whole reason for ordering a new one is I like the way the Wesleys I have feel in the draw and after the shot. I missed out on buying a used carbon Wesley a little while ago on this site. I was stupid I should have bought it to try and then sell if I didn't like it. I think I am going to wait to try to pick one up before I order one. I think that is the only way I will know. I ordered a new bow once without trying one first and hated it. Never again.

Thanks again
Gil

[mike g]

Orion....
I was thinking of a Tembo (3,lambs)....
    I was told by a notable bowyer that 3 lambs are plenty, The more lambs the more glue joints the hvyer the limbs will be....
    Why do you chose the Tembo, besides it being Hills favorite (Grandpa)....
    And Gil I herd the Carbon dose make the bows pull stiffer,butt dose not add a lot of performance....

[Orion]

Mike:  Right now, I shoot big 5s.  However, I would have no compunction about dropping down one lamination for a Tembo if I found the right weight, length combination.  I, too, think three lams is enough.  Don't really need another bow now.  That's why I'm not ordering one.  But, if one showed up.........

Gil:  I should also mention, my Wesley had a cocobolo riser, my Big 5 of roughly the same configuration has an ebony riser.  The ebony is a little heavier physically.  Really gives the bow a nice feel.  I ordered it for the color, but was pleasantly surprised by its weight.  Otherwise, some Hills can actually feel too light in the hand.

[Gil Verwey]

Thanks Mike and Orion.

My next choice is riser wood. I have a cocobolo and bacote. I was thinking of ebony or snakewood. The thing I like about my Wesleys is how light in the hand they are. I thought the ebony may add too much weight, but I doubt it. I am shooting a 650 grain arrow and I don't feel anything after the shot with either Wesley. I also shoot a 580 grain arrow and that feels pretty good too. Both bows are 55# @ 28, 66".

I had a tembo made by John Schulz. I should have never sold it. I was recovering from a head on car accident. It was nice but my neck and back had herniated disks and was killing me.

I may have to give a used Tembo another try. Even with the bad neck and back the bow felt pretty good, but I was suffering too much to appreciate it.

One great thing about Hills they are reasonably priced used or new. I think you get a lot of bow for the money.

Thanks again guys
Gil

[LBR]

My experience with bows that have carbon is limited, so take this for what it's worth.

To me, they feel heavier in draw weight--some moreso than others.  A couple I had my hands on felt a good 10# or more heavier than marked--we put one of them on a scale (it belonged to a friend) just to be sure.  They still pulled smooth, just felt stiff--if that makes sense.

As I understand it, the big benefit from a carbon lam is tortional stability.  Can't see where a Hill bow would need that.

Ask Craig what he thinks.  I know at least one bowyer that won't even offer carbon because he feels there is the benefit doesn't warrant the extra cost.

Chad

[mike g]

Mr Sentman will tell you that In alongbow such as a Hill with thick narrow limbs, carbon is not needed for stability....
    When I orderd his Razorback I ask about Carbon and he told me don't bother save your money....

[Gil Verwey]

I think I am not going to get the carbon. Instead of a new bow I think I will give a used Tembo another try first and stick with the two Wesleys I already have. No sense getting a new one when I like the one I have.

Thanks for all the information.

Gil

[Orion]

Gil:  The difference in weight between an ebony and cocobola riser is probably not more than an ounce or two.  Even with an ebony riser, a Hill is still a very light bow in the hand. In short, if you decide to buy, go with what you like to look at.  Don't know about you, but when I'm hunting, I spend a lot more time looking at my bow than I do shooting it.  

[thumper15]

Not trying to jack your thread here. But you guys have made me question which HH model I'll be ordering in regard to number of lams. Was going to order a wesley since I had one before but you guys got me wondering if the tembo or big 5 would pull a tad smoother with one or two fewer lams than the wesley. Has anyone noticed that the big 5 or tembo was smoother than a wesley?

[Gil Verwey]

Orion pretty funny, ha!

Randy, when I had my Tembo I didn't have the Wesley at the same time, so I really can't compare them. When I had the Tembo I was in bad shape from a car accident, so I couldn't really appreciate it. I do remember bad back and neck, I shot it great and noticed the lack of hand shock. It felt pretty quick too. I did have a Half Breed at the same time as the Wesley and it felt as smooth and fast, but felt like it had a little more hand shock than the Wesley, but only a very little difference.

I opened a similar thread to this one on another site. There was a person that answered that had a carbon Tembo and a standard Wesley. His posts were very good. This is what he said.

"I can't speak for the carbon Wesley but I do own a standard Wesley and a carbon lamboo Tembo. I know for a fact that my Tembo is noticibly faster, just as quiet, and has less thump in the hand than the Wesley! The Tembo does seem to have a higher preload on the limbs at brace making it seem stiffer initially, but the draw is very smooth."  

If anyone else has experience with both a Tembo and a Wesley shooting them side by side, please jump in I am interested also.

Thanks
Gil

[SpankyNeal]

Hey Gil that was me - i'm here too    I didn't want thumper15 to get the wrong idea so I wanted to pipe in here. I really think it is the carbon that causes the Tembo to feel a little stiffer and not the fact that it only has three lams as compared to the Wesley's five lams. I have not shot a Big 5 or regular Tembo so I can't compare. Many folks feel that three lams is plenty for lite to mid-weight bows. I don't know but there sure are a lot of pet Tembo's out there. As for the riser question, the Ebony does add only an ounce or two and I feel makes the bow more comfortable at the shot and helps stabilize the bow arm a little better, but that's JMHO as always. Here's mine Coco Wesley and Ebony Tembo.

 

[Gil Verwey]

Thanks Ken glad to you are here on this site also.

When I first read your post about the Tembo I didn't realize that it was carbon. I realized it when I posted it here. I like that ebony Tembo. I started to rethink whether to get the carbon or not based on what you said about the carbon Tembo. If it has less thump than the Wesley, my Wesley has none that I notice due to a 650 and 580 grain arrow, which is one of the things I like about my Wesley. The only thing I was afraid of was the smoothness of the draw. I really like how my Wesleys feel in the draw. It sounds like the from the post I pasted here, that you feel the draw starts off a little stiff but is smooth through the draw. Maybe I will go for the carbon and ebony. Now do I want a Tembo or Wesley that is the question?

Next year I am going on a DIY elk hunt in Colorado. I was going to order a Hill with a lot of Elk mojo. It was going to be a carbon Wesley, with clear glass on the belly, elk antler overlays on the riser and tips, elk laced leather grip and the sterling silver elk in the riser with either ebony or snakewood riser. I need all the help I can get so a little mojo would be a good thing!

Over the last two years a friend and I bought and tested over 60 bows looking for that perfect speed demon. Most were recurves. I am a longbow guy at heart but because of car accident had to switch for a while. I am back and getting very bow strong again. Instead of a used bow I wanted to get one made for me to my specs. I had two new bows made for me a long time ago. I used to only own and shoot those bows for 30 years. That was when I shot my best. I went a little nutty the last two years looking for that perfect bow. All I did was find that most are smooth and fast and screwed up my shooting royally from shooting so many different bows, instead of sticking with one. The Hill longbow is going to be it for me.

I recently bought a new bow and had a bad experience with it. I didn't want to make that mistake again. I wanted to try a carbon before I bought. The bow I want to get is going to be up there in price. It would stink to buy it and find I didn't like it.

Based on what you said I don't think the preload would be a problem for me. If I can get some speed great, that can't hurt, as long as the draw is smooth and no hand shock after the shot. Since I have a Wesley and really like the way it shoots, I am going to go ahead and order one. If I see a used Tembo I am going to buy it and try it.  

Now I just have to decide on the riser. Have you ever seen a snakewood Hill? I saw snakewood recurves but never a Hill. I shot an ebony Robertson and I own an ebony Rivers Edge. I liked both of them.

Thanks for the insight.

Gil

[thumper15]

Thanks guys answered my question, I'll probably go with a big 5 or tembo. Had a wesley and was nice so I'll try a differnt model and see if there's any difference it feel and post pics and report when I get it.

[HARL]

I have a dozen Hills here and the one I shoot the most is my carbon backed Wesley T/D.It may feel a little heavier earlier in the draw,but it's still the 70 at my draw.When I'm shooting my 750 gr.arrows I get lots of comments on how fast it seems for a Hill.4 of my Hills have carbon and I like them all.

[Bowitis]

Gil,
 The Schulz Tempo I own out performs several Wesley specials at the same or higher poundage.
And several guys say that it is smoother.
Kevin

[Gil Verwey]

Kevin does that Tembo have brown glass and antler tips? Just wondering if it could have been mine?

Thanks
Gil

[Bowitis]

Yes, and it is named "Sagittarious"

[M60gunner]

Try  http://www.howardhillshooters.com/  
Dick has owned and shot many different Hill`s and has posted about them.
He also says the carbon makes a stiffer shooting bow.