Surprising Chrono Results to me.

[WESTBROOK]

I have found that a chrono is only good for comparing bows relatively to each other on the same day at the same time. Depending on light conditions the results can vary day to day. Not by much but they do. But relatively when you shoot bows against each other the results seem to come out the same.

He's not saying his speed numbers are 100% accurate, they don't have to be when just comparing bow A to bow B. The only thing being looked at here is the DIFFERENCE between bow A and bow B, which should be very accurate being both bows were shot at the same session under the same setup/conditions.

This comparison has been done several times with the same results. The heavy limbs of the Hill bow are not effected as much by the increased arrow weight. The faster bow will almost always be faster but the margin narrows as arrow weight increases.

[joe skipp]

This is why I never chronographed any of my hunting bows. Too many different readings from the different chrono's used.

I gauge how satisfied I am with my bows shooting arrows 9-10 gpp at 20 yds. When I release, and see how fast the arrow hits the mark...or how slow..will determine if the bow is a keeper for me.

When my Trad shop was open, I carried 7 lines of custom bows, we did a lot of shooting, testing and comparing. Never chronographing....the naked eye will tell you about your bows performance, especially out to the longer yardages. One bowyer told me his 55# bow would shoot a 540 grain arrow 193 fps.

We took the bow to the compound shop I use to work in, set up the chronograph and fired 5 arrows through. 540 grains...never exceeded 182 fps. That's 2 different machines, giving 2 different readings and quite sizable at that.

[joe skipp]

This is why I never chronographed any of my hunting bows. Too many different readings from the different chrono's used.

I gauge how satisfied I am with my bows shooting arrows 9-10 gpp at 20 yds. When I release, and see how fast the arrow hits the mark...or how slow..will determine if the bow is a keeper for me.

When my Trad shop was open, I carried 7 lines of custom bows, we did a lot of shooting, testing and comparing. Never chronographing....the naked eye will tell you about your bows performance, especially out to the longer yardages. One bowyer told me his 55# bow would shoot a 540 grain arrow 193 fps.

We took the bow to the compound shop I use to work in, set up the chronograph and fired 5 arrows through. 540 grains...never exceeded 182 fps. That's 2 different machines, giving 2 different readings and quite sizable at that.

[Gil Verwey]

Ah Joe, now you did it! I was hoping that one would end. You found it and I agree with you.

How the heck did you find this one from 2008.

I had a personal discussion with John Fasio about speed and chronos. His bows were some of the fastest. He told me he could flip guys out at the archery shop he worked by making his recurve bow shoot 230 through a chrono with fingers by the way he released.

The one thing out of all of this testing to me was that as arrow weight went up so did the bows performance efficiency, momentum and KE. But there is a limit to everything and diminishing returns in trajectory after a while.

Now if I get good cast with a heavier arrow out to 40 yards following Dr Ashby's broadhead study, I am good to go for what I do - hunt.

I am dropping out of this thread and the other. I have been in way to many of them over the years and it is a loosing battle. I also had a few with OL Adcock and as far as I am concerned there was no better in regard to speed, testing and skinny strings.

Even if guys use top flight equipment to test, I bet you a million dollars not one of the bow arrow combinations were tuned. I think that would also affect results.

I am running and hiding from these threads and any on momentum versus KE.

Thanks
Gil  
 
PS - a friend and I tested hundreds of bows. We each shot the same bows and compared results between bows and when we shot. At the end of all of these tests we each found our favorite bow. He hates mine and refuses to even hold it. I hate his and when I shoot it feels like a slinky after the shot. Bow preference is purely subjective and they all perform very well for our needs. That is why they make all kinds. They are all nice.

[pdk25]

Sorry Gil,
I am to blame from bringing this to the top.  Thought some might like the info.  Wasn't trying to start a battle or anything.

[Gil Verwey]

Hi Pat. No problem here. How did you find this one. I thought this would have been deleted long ago.

There is no battle here. I didn't even read through the threads, I know better, but I can imagine what these have been like.

I am kind of surprised if it would turn into a battle here on Tradgang. Usually there is much respect for the individual and opinions. Battles are what happen on other sites usually.

How have you been? I liked the hunt you went on for buffalo. I just sold a bow to someone in Australia. I would like to go one day. My dream is Africa but I don't think I will ever have the loot.

[Sixby]

Using identical weight bows , pulled the same distance , arrows the same weight or using same arrow , one of these bows will be more efficient than the other. That bow will be the recurve. It will be faster than the longbow simply by its design unless it is a poorly made recurve.
As you up the arrow weight the numbers will get closer as each bow uses more of its efficiency against the increased weight of the projectile. At an extreme point they will become very close as each bow approaches maximum efficiency.

However the fastest bow to start with that has a higher efficiency rating will always be more efficient and faster than the bow that was slower. That is a fact of dynamics and physics that is not going to change.

God bless, Steve.

[Shawn Leonard]

Have to agree with Steve here. The more efficient bow is the more efficient bow. The longbow in this case will never pass the the recurve, they may become closer but the longbow will not pass the recurve. The Laws of physics tell us that! Shawn

[pdk25]

Hey Shawn and Steve. You are probably correct, and that may be what Gil's testing shows.

Hey Gil,
I was just using the search function. I remembered some old threads after someone posted about Hill chrono results recently. I have been pretty good and I am looking forward to some hog and deer hunting soon. DIY elk will be next year. I hope you are able to make it to either Africa or Australia. Those horses can really deplete your funds, lol.

[Jim Wright]

Gil, I am not about to suggest that you are posting anything other than what your chronograph indicates. That said, you are getting readings in f.p.s. that are far in excess of what Blackie Schultz does in his bow reviews for Traditional Bowhunter Magazine. I will say again that it would be interesting if someone did a test on a number of chronographs to see which ones read the fastest and to test them in different indoor and outdoor light settings to see how much they vary individually.

[Gil Verwey]

Jim I don't take offense by this at all. I said in the other thread I thought it was a big waste of my time and money for me.

If you look at the beginning of this thread, I said I thought it was good for comparing bows against each other on the same day and that was it. I would get different results on different days with the same bows. The difference between bows would be the same proportionately.

Ol Adcock set me straight a long time ago. Back yard testing may OK for yourself to compare your own bows, but controlled testing like Blackie's is a real barometer for a standard performance index. But I bet even Blackie doesn't tune the arrow he is shooting to the bow being shot. I bet that skews the stats a little too.

I only looked at this thread since I was surprised it had my name on it. I didn't remember starting any threads lately. I didn't read this one or the other fully, because I avoid speed, chrono and momentum vs. KE threads like the plague.

At one time I had the need for speed. I had a head on car accident in 2001. I had to put the bow down for 5 years. Before the accident I shot heavy bows. After I wanted to find the fastest for the lowest draw weight I could find, since I had to shoot lighter bows. That is when I started all of this chrono stuff. In the end I found most bows perform well. There were a few that were above the rest. There were some low end bows that performed as well or better than some high end custom bows. I found that some high end custom bows had big differences in performance and how the bow shot between the same model of bow.

Now I am content with what I have and my only consideration for bow speed is the cast at 40 yards with the hunting arrow I have set up to shoot.

A friend and I did this for us. All we did was shoot and record the numbers in a spread sheet for us to compare bows against each other. That is it. The bows that were shot were all shot on the same chrono to compare them to each other. They were not meant to say that these are the standard to which others should compare their bows to.

The numbers in the other thread were shot on a different chrono in a archery shop. That is what we shot there too. I am tempted to break out my chrono and shoot that bow again, but I don't want to be drawn into the chrono thing again. It doesn't matter to me.

[Gil Verwey]

Here is what I said in my second post in this thread in 2008. I think everyone looks at the numbers and jumps it.

 

I have found that a chrono is only good for comparing bows relatively to each other on the same day at the same time. Depending on light conditions the results can vary day to day. Not by much but they do. But relatively when you shoot bows against each other the results seem to come out the same.

I used to think I had some screamer bows but that was with a light arrow. I think there are a lot of advantages to a heavy arrow and those screamers don't seem to have much of an advantage as weight increases.

Just my opinion though.

I should have mentioned that both bows were using 8125 padded loop 12 strand strings.

Gil