The "concept" of camoflage?????

[elkbreath]

hmmmmm... My favorite warm weather camo.

 

 


and the treestand I wear it in...home sweet home

 

[Jerry Jeffer]

originaly posted by woodchucker    

Why is it that most big game animals can "dissapear" into nothing.....and they are solid colored?????
 

Obviously you have not looked closely at animals. The colors and texture of animals (fur) are what camoflage them so well. They are not solid colored. Most camo patterns are green. If green is so great, why are not animals green? Camo is made to impress the eyes of humans. I spent years being fooled by this and have changed camo patterns many times. Now I only wear camo to hide my self from people. Aside from movement, UV is the other thing that gets you busted. Use a UV killer in the wash and you could hunt with that crazy Hawaiian shirt no problem. I have not seen many photos of Mr. Bear et all wearing camo. Hummmmm.....

[BOWBENDERPA]

Good article by Bill Heavy titled "The Big Game Is About To Change" in the July Field and Stream.  States "A deer couldn't care less what camo pattern you are wearing.  As long as it breaks up your outline, it has done it's job".  I have been bowhunting deer in Pennsylvania for 40+ years and agree with others here that I have never seen a Whitetail "pick out" a certain type of camo.

[ethan]

I've never thought alot of any of the camo out there.  But, I now do most of my hunting from public land and it's a completely different story.  I think the predator and ASAT camo are by far and away better.  I also like the idea of not being spotted by other hunters.

[Plug]

Originally posted by woodchucker:
2) Why is it that most big game animals can "dissapear" into nothing.....and they are solid colored?????

Do they?  Put a motionless man dressed in Predator camo and a motionless deer side by side in the woods and the deer will stick out more.

Put a deer up in a tree stand and it will "blob".

If you dressed most solid color animals in a good camo pattern they'd be even harder to spot.

[Dutchman]

Effective camo "technique" also uses shadows heavily. Contrast is important in effectively camoflauging anything, IMO.

[Mojostick]

Movement, or the lack of movement is obviously the biggest concern of any deer hunter, bow or gun. However, proper camo is just another good tool for bowhunters at very close range, like playing the wind, good scent control and being quiet while entering a hunting location.

If you talk to the guy from Sleeping Indian Wool, he claims that the US military did numberous tests and studies and the best all around, year round camo involved shades of gray. Basically patterns similar to the military urban camo gray and digital camo gray.

After having first bowhunted in bluejeans and WWII camo and "old" wool in the 1970's, then I owned some treebark camo, then Mossy Oak, Realtree, ASAT, Predator, Cabela's Outfitter wool and Skyline, etc., I've formed my own opinions.

In the upper Midwest, it's my opinion that the Mossy Oak's and Realtree's are still a little too blobby for my tastes. Be it treestand hunting or on the ground.
ASAT is a good all around pattern. Outfitter wool green/brown is good for conifers/pines.

But in my opinion, if you choose to use camo over the old traditional checked patterns, then the best all around patterns are Skyline's green patterns for early season and then either Predator Grey, Outfitter grey/snow or Hightimber camo for colder weather once leaves start turning.
At least if you hunt the upper Midwest.

Here is the Sklylines options. Dayone Camo has these in some light fleece which is great for 55 degree's and over...
 http://www.skylinecamo.com/online_store.php3#

Dayone camo also has a great pattern that is a combo between WWII camo and Outfitter camo.
It's called Hightimber fleece. It's at the bottom...
 http://ns1.bowsite.org/dayone/patterns.cfm

Gray Wolf Woolen makes fantastic wool gear in Predator Gray. BTW, they also make great gear in a gray traditional check pattern too...
 http://www.graywolfwoolens.com/store/pages.php?pageid=28

For a cheaper option of what I consider the other "best" all around cool/cold weather pattern, Colombia's snow/grey is the great for making one disappear...
 http://www.rockydirect.com/product/1000074/0251-38


Also make sure to check out Gray Wolf's returned merchandise pages for good deals on premium camo...
 http://www.graywolfwoolens.com/store/home.php?cat=26


One can debate all day as to what Ishi or the founding fathers of modern traditional archery would wear if they were alive and starting out today. Did the likes of Fred Bear wear what he wore because it was the best option in his time? If Fred Bear was a middle aged man today, would Bear Archery have his own signature camo product line?
What would Fred Bear or Ishi say if they hunted on for 4 hours on a -2 degree December morning in Michigan and tried a Predator Gray 27 oz wool/comformax lined bibs and jacket with matching bomber hat. I'll bet ya even that they'd come back to camp with grin and say "I gotta get me some of that!".

We'll never really know for sure, even if someone once talked to Fred Bear about camo in 1965. And that's what makes the wondering all so fun.    

But either way, if you want to use checked wool or a camo pattern, just enjoy yourself and stay still.

[Mojostick]

One more thing, as Elkbreath points out, even blaze orange is just fine if it has a "camo" pattern on it. If you bowhunt during firearms seasons, don't think twice about wearing blaze orange with some type of black camo mix to it.
I have never had a deer "see" me in blaze camo and have killed 2 of my nicest bow bucks while wearing blaze orange camo in cold weather.
In fact, once the leaves are gone, I think blaze camo is among the best skyline patterns, if you can get past the idea of sitting there in orange.

But if you bowhunt during firearms seasons in area's with heavy pressure, you'll want to wear that orange.

[ChuckC]

Back in the 60's camo was just getting started and there was not much to chose from.  Many of us made our own camo gear from the two or three patterns of cloth available.

It started out slowly and  in the last 20 years the dam has broken.

For quite a while I collected camo T shirts.. just to have them.  I have since run out of money and space.  Many are still bearing the tags.  It is neat to see al the variations, but when I hang them outside against the type of cover that I normally see in the woods, it opens your eyes an amazing ways.
ChuckC

[woodchucker]

I've been at this a LONG time Jerry!!!!!       (and payed REAL close attention to animals too)

A black bear is BLACK!!!!!(with some exceptions of coarse)

A black bear curled up sleeping in a deadfall looks just like a BIG BLACK BLOB in a deadfall. But yet.....It goes un-noticed. (I know from experiance!!!!! I came within feet of stepping on one in the Adirondacks several years ago while still-hunting a ridge of storm-toppled trees)

One of the many things you hear from bear hunters is the difficulty of trying to pick a spot on a "black blob" in low light.

[bbassi]

Well Chuck, I guess you succeeded in your quest.  :D

The bottom line is it's whatever works best for you and what you feel comfortable with. The manufacturers spend millions each year trying to convince you that theirs is the best, and if you want to drink the kool-aid of one or the other, then God bless you. I'll continue to buy mine at good will and or the wally world close out rack.

[Jerry Jeffer]

yeah, ok, but he wasn't moving. Again, movement will get you busted.   Hmmm, dark mass in a deadfall..
 

[toddster]

Okay, my two cents, I was born in 67, i grew up in central illinois with poor shotgun hunters, till I graduated and went into the Marine Corps.  While in the Marines I was in the Infantry and stationed on Barracks duty where received special training from various federal agencies, we predated what are F.A.S.T. teams now.  I then became a Scout/sniper 8541.  I have bowhunted for the past 20 years.  I can tell you from experiance from not only bowhunting this country, but seeing action in the jungle and desert that camoflauge is what a person makes it.  Human being as so intelligent we negate our primal instincts.  We see a shape and dismiss it only to have a deer or whatever burst from it a few seconds later.  We see a glimps of movement in our perefial vision and doubt it, boom there is a buck gone.  For primal instinct animals, this is still life or death, and for us in combat.  I have stood in a desert with woodland issues camo on, stalking, a trained observer and got to within 20 yards of him, by using the terrain around us.  True camo is not what you are wearing, but how you blend into mother nature surrondings.  At the time the "old timer's" wore what was considered camo, to blend in.  Though we can debate that man has always wore some type of camo to get his prey.  it wasn't until W.W.II, that camo with blotch's was worn and effective.  It was the vet's whom brought it back and started using it.  Yes, to burst some bubble,  Mr. Fred Bear did wear camo in the 60's and was a strong believer in it.  Others did too, using the military camo of the time, which didn't take effect till vietnam era.  Now, if you play the wind right, and have on clean, scent free camo, that isn't too bright, you can, with using common sense and woodsmanship harvest game.  Anything else you do, using a burnt cork to stripe you or clothes, put on patterns to your clothes, tape/pin brush to your clothes (which even with our gillies, we still added local veg), is just added stuff to help movement, period!  You can stand in the middle of he woods in a bright spotted red/blue barrel and don't move the game will at first spook, but from watching and studying you, will learn you are not harmful to them, but if they smell you, it is all over.

[woodchucker]

toddster, Semper Fi Brother!!!!!      

As Jerry said earlier,(and I am NOT picking on you LOL) "If green was so great,then all animals wood be green"

During the spring,summer and early fall,the landscape is a sea of green.The animals do not need to be green,there is more than enough green in thier world to hide them. Animals are brown and gray and black,The colors of winter.When the leaves are gone,and the days are short,the animals must blend in with the forest floor.That amounts to acres of light brown leaf litter,gray sticks and limbs and rocks,and old dark brown and black logs and stumps.

Have you ever wondered why the Snowshoe Hare turns white in the winter????? Because way up north in dark conifer swamps there are only 2 colors.....black (dark) and WHITE.

[pseman]

I don't pay a whole lot of mind to what type/pattern of camo that I wear. I have all types and mix and match randomly. I try to match the lightness/darkness to the area I am hunting, but pay little attention to pattern.

[woodchucker]

Hmmmmm,dark mass in a deadfall.....(NICE pic BTW Jerry)  

I never said "un-seen".....I said un-NOTICED!!!!!

[Deadsmple]

Too many pages to read so please excuse me if it seems I'm just repeating what others have already said.
 
I believe the "concept" behind camo is to make the user less detectable. For me as far as camo patterns go ASAT is the best for this purpose. That does not mean ASAT is all I use. In fact I don't own any for the sad fact that I have not found any ASAT camo  clothing that meets other criteria important to me like material used and functionality. Therefore I tend to hunt mostly in gray or black wool. This fits my style of hunting well. I hunt from the ground and when I'm on the move I stay low to the ground like most other creatures found in the woods I hunt.

As to the question why the critters seem to disappear so easily. I feel its because they are natural. Our synthetic and processed clothing do not reflect/absorb light like natural materials. Another reason to use wool. IMO

When all is said and done I think it really comes down to how we use our chosen camo. If you move too much you're gonna get busted. Some colors/patterns/shapes afford us different degrees of movement. It's a matter of knowing what will do best for you in your particular situation. JMHO

[Dave2old]

Well, as I tell all my friends who insist on "hunting" from ATVs and messing it up for themselves as well as the rest of us ... the best camo for deer is a deerskin jacket and pants with an antler hat ... the best turkey camo is a tail-spread on your head, etc. All depends on what "best" means to you!   :D  dave

[BAK]

Just a comment on the big "green" issue.  I worked with another gentlemen developing a new camo pattern back in the early 80's.  We did a great deal of research and testing.  The one thing that really amazed us was that if you take a camera with black and white film and photograph deer in the red phase of summer out in a bean or corn field you will find that they are almost exactly the same.  The shade of red and the shade of green look just the same in black  and white.

[Osagetree]

Why not,,,, One leg, woodland,,, the other leg, realtree,,, waist & shirt, asat,,, sleeves could be two other types of camo.

Would this not break up the human outline better? Even if the game caught movement it would have a hard time determining what the heck it was!