A Little Elk Scouting

[Jack Skinner]

You have friends/hunting partners that attest to your hard hunting abilities I dont know you, Good for you. Hunting over a natural wallow or even a water tank in some areas no problem. Stands are a personel choice I like ground blinds. You may want to rethink this situation. In your state what you are doing with the salt block is illegal and unethical.

[tomh]

As those who know Jesse have said he is a hunter in every sense of the word.
I would celebrate any animal he takes, because I know he worked his butt off for it.

[Minuteman]

Its really simply a question of whether what he's doing is legal or not. Whether its right or not is a completely different discussion. Nobody's casting doubts on anyone's hunting abilities.
 I can tell you that that salt block will be in the soil for many years to come.

[Rik]

I wasn't trying to hurt his feelings, just trying to save him from a VERY EXPENSIVE fine from the Idaho Fish and Game Department.

Their rules are highly restrictive, and if they get their nose on a scent, they will dot every "i" and cross every "t."

It's best to just steer clear of anything that might interest them. Their tolerance level is just about zero for things like this. They have a tough job to do, and they do it extremely well.

Just take our suggestions as good advice from well meaning fellow hunters.

[Jesse Minish]

Well I was not going to post on this thread any more. But after read a few posts on that what I was doing was illegal I thought that I would state once again that I AM NOT GOING TO HUNT OVER THE SALT BLOCK. So I guess that it is not illegal what I am doing. Thanks for the comments, compliments and advice. Happy hunting.

[T.Minish]

Originally posted by Dave2old:
Jesse -- Our collective point is, legal or not, this is not the kind of hunting we like to see celebrated on this site.  

This is your opinion Dave, I'd like to know who you mean by "we".


 

Originally posted by Jack Skinner:
In your state what you are doing with the salt block is illegal and unethical.

Illegal yes, unethical however, is a matter of opinion, and I for one see nothing wrong with using a salt lick(if legal where you are hunting). It's already been said, but it is no different to me than baiting for bears...

[Gehrke145]

Jesse take it with a grain of salt.  Some guys get a little carried away on here with that kind of stuff (depending on the animal)I've asked the game and fish the same ? and always get diffrent answers?  That being said i know a few guys that do the same thing in ID for picture's.  I tried vanilla and got the same responce on another sight.  lol I can use cow in heat hunting but get hammered for useing vanilla for pictures lol.  Shoot me a PM i'd like to see the pics if you wouldn't mind

[T. Downing]

I am one of the "We" Dave is talking about. With all due respect, if it is illegal, than it becomes unethical to me. If it isn't illegal, have at it. I personally don't care for baiting eithier, but it is legal in certain places so I respect it. Food for thought...
It is educational for me to read the differing opinions on the subject. One hunter's personal ethics is a touchy subject. I am happy we do it with class here at Tradgang.

[stmpthmpr]

Originally posted by Dave2old:
 Jesse -- Our collective point is, legal or not, this is not the kind of hunting we like to see celebrated on this site.

And, what IS "this kind of hunting"? Seems to me this was some off-season photography!

I am NOT one of the "we". The reason Im not is because I do not make judgements on other peoples ethics unless it is a clear case of unethical/illegal behavior with intent.


 

Originally posted by Jack Skinner:
 In your state what you are doing with the salt block is illegal and unethical.

Is it illegal in Idaho? I would be interested in being shown where exactly in the Idaho regs it addresses the use of salt licks for photography.
__________________________________________

I scoured the regs and could not come up with regs on the feeding of game. This is an oversight by the Department. Other states have both baiting rules AND feeding of game(non-hunting) rules. Without the latter, it is left a grey area.

A curious thing to me is Idaho's definition of "hunting". After reading the baiting rules and this definition, I have my own opinion of what the INTENT of the laws are and for ME, it is a pretty dark shade of grey. But, they are not near clear enough. These types of grey areas in the regs need to be addressed and made crystal clear to the public. The consequences to the individual who unintentionally breaks the rules and to hunting in general are too costly.

If it were clearly illegal, then I would agree that it is unethical. But when the laws are unclear, it is up to the individual to decide for themselves the legality and ethicality.

In all instances where laws are not crystal clear, its a good idea to speak directly to enforcement officers and get their opinions. When it comes right down to it, no matter if the laws are fuzzy, ignorance is seldom a defense in the eyes of the courts.

When it comes to ethics, I feel it a good practice to share what our own personal ethics are and leave it to others to connect the dots. If our intent is to help others and encourage ethics in hunting, it is counter-productive to come across in a "holier than thou", judgemental manner. And it is SO easy to come off that way when one only has words on a page to go by. Its also easy to forget that behind the screen names are real people.

[Rik]

To keep anyone from getting an expensive citation due to misinformation, here's a direct quote from Page 63 of the 2008 Idaho Regulations:

"It is unlawful to:

• Hunt any game animal by means of baiting with grain, salt in any form, liquid or solid, or any other substance – including nonagricultural water as an attractant, but not liquid scents – to constitute an attraction or enticement, with the exception of applicable rules for the black bear
baiting permit."

"Salt in any form" includes salt washed into the ground from a salt block placed earlier in the year.

It's always easier to stay on the right side of the law--------and a lot less expensive.

Forget the salt, call the bulls in and have them scream in your face. It's a L-O-T more fun that way! Especially when they scream so hard they nearly blow your hat off. Now THAT's fun!

[Gehrke145]

I might of missed it but I didn't think he was planning on hunting just useing it for pictures?

[fatman]

gehrke, I don't think his intention was to hunt the salt block per se....it was set next to a really nice wallow, which had a nice permanent stand next to it.  in his words "I put the salt out to help them out, it will be gone by the time the season rolls around".  I really don't think the salt was put out with the intent of attracting game, I think it was a "treat" for the animals that he really loves...however, some of us felt that (A) a game warden might see it differently (B) that even if the block was gone, the salt would remain in the soil...

[T.Minish]

Originally posted by T. Downing:
I am one of the "We" Dave is talking about. With all due respect, if it is illegal, than it becomes unethical to me. If it isn't illegal, have at it.

We must have different opinions of what "ethical" means. I usually associate the term ethics with some kind of a sense of morals. This doesn't always coincide with what is "legal". For example, it is illegal to bait bears in my state. That doesn't mean I consider it unethical by any means, I just don't do it because it's illegal.

If all of a sudden it became legal to kill as many elk as you wanted to, then just leave them to rot, it doesn't make it any more "ethical" in my eyes...

[Gehrke145]

Thats what I thought just making sure, with all the baiting is bad coming up (drives me nuts)

[T. Downing]

"If all of a sudden it became legal to kill as many elk as you wanted to, then just leave them to rot, it doesn't make it any more "ethical" in my eyes..."
 
Very Good Point. After reading my post again, I thought extensively about ethics and there are laws in place that ethically and morally do not make sense. I stand corrected, it did not feel right when I wrote it, lacked depth. That said, ethics and morals play a major part of my life particulary when it comes to God, family, wildlife, and traditional bowhunting. Ethically speaking, you will never find me puting out a salt lick out in the forest for any reason and the last place I will ever hunt bear is over  bait. Just an ethical/moral thing with me. T

[WidowEater]

after weeding through this political/ethical mess im just going to say it WAS a nice picture and good luck this year

to each his own, and more unfortunately, to preach his own

[T.Minish]

Originally posted by WidowEater:
after weeding through this political/ethical mess im just going to say it WAS a nice picture and good luck this year

to each his own, and more unfortunately, to preach his own

Very well put!

It's a blessing and even sometimes a curse to have a place like this where we can all gather to discuss things we are very passionate about. As long as we can all try not to judge others for our differing opinions/practices related to hunting, this place should remain a very enjoyable place to visit.

Happy hunting and good luck!

[BrianP]

I'm probably just "piling on" here but the last few months was turkey season for most.  I must say I was shocked by the number of folks with a pile of corn out in front of their blind.  Next to their bow lay a dead bird.  Legal?  Probably...  Ethical?...well...I'll leave that one alone.  

My biggest thrill of turkey hunting is calling in the birds, in the middle of shotgun season, on public land, and making a good shot and a quick kill.  The birds have no other reason to come close enough to me other than to check things out.  Funny thing, they don't even look disappointed that I don't have a pile of corn out for them.

I didn't think about questioning the ethics or hunting style of those folks...nor did I think I was on a higher level than them...just didn't agree and thus I didn't hijack their post.  They were happy and good for them.  

Good Luck, Jesse, could you post your pics again?  I haven't seen any elk yet this year, need to get the fever going soon.

Brian

[Plywood Bender-laptop]

Jesse-

Don't let them get you down.

After having had the pleasure to share a camp with you, I can easily say that I can't think of any other more ethical, hardworking, and completely unselfish hunter that I have ever met.

I hope I get the chance to share a camp with you in the future.

I am really starting to believe that the "good old days" were the ones when everyone just minded their own business.  Too many people have too much time on their hands.

Best regards,

Carl

[leatherneck]

Hey Jesse how about posting them pics of that wallow. I'm new to this elk thing and would like to see different pics.

As far as the rest of this stuff, well I don't believe this post was about ethics or laws, or even hogwash. So I won't comment. If someone makes their OWN post about such things, I will give my opinion. Thanks.

Mike