Effects of limb veneers on bow performance?

[Tom Anderson]

What it y'all's experience with how different veneers affect limb performance?  I've been told that it doesn't really matter, but that black glass supposedly performs better than everything else?
So, does the choice of veneer matter?

[traditional beagle]

I have noticed no difference.

[Shawn Leonard]

Do you mean veneers or tip overlays. If ya mean the veneers the choice does not matter. If it made a difference in performance it would be so small no one would care. It is the limb core material that really matters, even carbon as backing does not help enough to really care, for me anyway. In limb tips it would again not matter, less weight on the limb tips increase performance not the material.

[Tom Anderson]

Shawn,
I'm refering to limb veneers.  I've edited my original thread to clear it up.
Thanks for the responses so far.

[NightHawk]

hmmmm,  if your using black glass why would you need veneers? I think I'd just go with my core laminations if I were using black glass. Veneers are just for esthetics. The core laminations along with the fiberglass do the work, not the veneers. If your using black glass then there is no need for a veneer as you can't see through the glass.

[stmpthmpr]

Shawn, Id be interested in hearing why it is that the core wood matters and the veneers do not? Simply because the core wood is the meat in the sandwich and the veneers are the condiments? What about limbs with just two lams and they both happen to be veneers? What makes them veneers anyway... just the fact that they happen to be under the glass? What if the core wood and the veneers are the same material... does that mean the veneers matter then or the core doesnt?

Nativecraft, I cant say I have ever heard that black glass performs better than anything else. What is that anything else... clear glass? Green? Id sure love to hear the reasoning behind that!

[7eyes]

Veneers are usually used to cover up something. They are much thinner than laminations. In my experience I have had better luck with veneers socially and psychologically.

[Danny Rowan]

A vaneer is very very thin, as Shawn said it is the core that matters.

Danny

[WidowEater]

what is the core material on Black widows, isint it glass?  If so does any thing else in that limb do anything or is it just for looks?

[Crooked Stic]

People use veneers for looks in the limbs. I think what Shaun is saying it dont matter enough performance wise whatever you use for veneers as long as you keep them thin.The rest(core)does matter performance wise. The lighter the better. Dont know about the widows. Glass is the heaviest part of the limb ?

[BigJim]

Widows use several different types of core. I have had bamboo, osage, and actionwood.

Personally, I like laminated bamboo for core material because its light, fast, and consistent.
 I use red elm or osage in my personal bows which are all around 80lbs. and thicker bamboo can split and make a mess in your underwear.

All the bows I build are veneered with clear glass and exotics. All the limbs are esentialy built the same. I havn't noticed any performance differences Even in my personal bows with red elm cores. They will all shoot an 8g per lb @ 28" around 200+ fps.

If there is a performance dif-, I am not willing to make or shoot an ugly bow just to pick up a fps or two.

BigJim

[7eyes]

"everything matters"

[Benny Nganabbarru]

G'day Troy! If you ate more Widows, you'd know for sure, mate!

Sorry, couldn't resist such an attempt, however poor, at punnery... Happy shooting and good hunting to you!

[7eyes]

:p  

[7eyes]

[Java Man]

Most veneers are between .020" and .030" thick. Generally a very small percentage of total limb thickness.  So, if you replaced .050" total bamboo in a limb with .050" of cocobolo veneers, you likely would need a shooting machine and chrono to tell the difference.  If any.

Where the weight matters is in the outer 1/3 of the limb where they are narrowed anyway.  Now the mass difference would be difficult to measure with a very accurate scale.

I agree with BigJim:

[Shawn Leonard]

Stump, lams are not veneers, veneers are very thin by definition lams are not. Just because they make up the back and belly of a limb does not make them veneers. Dictionary: Veneer- A very thin covering as in fine wood, cosmetic thin covering. Shawn

[Doc Nock]

Good catch, Shawn... on those specific word differences!

I was sitting here scratchin my head and thinking..."but yeah they do!"

Doh...! I was thinking laminations, not veneers. Now I have to wonder what the original poster meant??

I was so ill informed, I didn't know that bowyers used "veneers" along with laminations!?

I thought it was core and lams only, now that I'm thinking in the right terminology.

Interesting thread...

[Tom Anderson]

Originally posted by Doc Nock:
.... Now I have to wonder what the original poster meant?? ...

The original poster, me, meant the thin layers of laminations that you actually see on the bow limbs...the outside so-to-speak.

[Lonesome Wind]

The best shootin' bow I've built is the one I built for going to Africa and it has bamboo cores with ebony and cocabolo veneers. You can't get much heavier than those two woods and I can still propel a 970 grain arrow 151 fps with 61# @ 29". I've never had veneers affect bow performance.
Keep your stick bent!
Vince