Xtreme FOC experiment...maybe to xtreme?

[Dave Bowers]

Howdy fellas, so I started this experiment with heavy aras and extreme foc. I fletched up some 2317s and started bare shaft tuning; I knew it was gonna take alot up front to get'em to flew straight. So I started with 175 gr field tip and went all the way to 220 gr.
My bow set up is 50lb @ 28 inches and the arrow are 29 inches.
It was amazing to watch the difference in flight with bare shafts and the different weight tips. And basically the 220 tip made them big ol logs fly great. With the 220gr tip they bare she tune great; smacking within 1 or 2 inches of the fletched arrow. And the real tickler was when I paper tuned  the just for fun. Both the bare shaft and fletched shaft with 220 gr tip paper tuned with bullet holes...I have never achieved this with paper tuning a recurve.  

Total arrow weight tuned out to be 715 grains; anyone think this is a bit outa control?

I really just liked the experiment...lol

[clone]

Dave,
Just wait till you shoot an animal with those hight FOC arrows.  I am shooting 285 gr on the front of mine right now.  They fly like bullets.  The other thing you can do with extreme FOC is reduce the size of your fletching, which reduces noise and seems to increase speed some.  
Clone

[Deff]

If those logs don't shorten your effective range too much -- go for it!
I have been shooting 745 grain arrows out of a 60# longbow. I have been shooting much better with them than the 475 grain arrows I had used before. Mine are carbons with brass adapters and have 1/2 of a weight tube glued behind the point to acheive the "extreme" FOC. They are the first arrows I have used that acheive the same point of impact with field points, judos, and broadheads. I had tried paper and bare shaft tuning the lighter arrows but my point of impact always shifted with the different points.
 The bow seem to be much quieter and the slower arrows fly quieter also. Ground squirrels seem to duck the slower arrows more often though.

[fyrfyter43]

As long as they fly good for ya, there's nothing wrong with alot of FoC.

My current arras weigh in at 625 grains, with 27.2% FoC. A total of 350 grains up front.

[Biggie Hoffman]

Anyone tried Bob Morrisons new 300 grainier yet?

[Bill Carlsen]

Biggie: I have not but I put some 200 grain Razor caps on my arrows which have 100 grain inserts just to see how it would work out. It seems that in order to shoot them I would need to go up in spine (buy more shafts). I have the heavier shafts but they are the Axis shafts and I cannot exchange the inserts or I would make up a half dozen for my trip to Eldon's next month. As far as I can see the 200 grains I now shoot give me what I want so I have opted not to do the 300 grain thing for now, and spend the money on other things.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Dave, you coming to pequest on Sunday... there is about a dozen of Us tradgangers going.

[Molson]

Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
Anyone tried Bob Morrisons new 300 grainier yet?

Haven't tried them but I did get a good look at them at the Bowyers Journal Expo.  That is one seriously built head!

If you'd like to try a Woodsman on steriods, that head right there will make you happy!!

[Bob Morrison]

The 300 Xtreem BH will be available in 6 weeks. I'm suppose to have the cost by Monday. I will start taking orders as soon as I know the price. This is not my BH. A customer of mine in Canada is the owner of it. I've just been lucky enough to be in on the R&D and used them all last season. A few others have also had a couple heads and all reports are great. It will cost a little more, You may lose it, But you will not destroy it.

[Dave Bowers]

Originally posted by mysticguido:
Dave, you coming to pequest on Sunday... there is about a dozen of Us tradgangers going.

Probably not bud, not sue if I have to work or not yet?

[George D. Stout]

My uncle had an extreme front of center, but he went on a diet, and is pretty much back to normal.   I'll stick to my excessively light 540 grain cedars and 500 grain aluminums.  And I hate to admit it, but I'm also shooting double bevels   .   Okay....I'm a rogue.

[Don Stokes]

I'm with George. I don't understand the trend to extreme points. As long as the arrow is heavier on the tip than at the nock and is properly matched to the bow and archer, it will fly perfectly and penetrate plenty. If penetration is an issue, it's more likely to be caused by poor flight than whatever degree of FOC you're using. I like my arrows around 600 grains, but it doesn't matter to me whether the point is 125 grains or 190 grains, as long as the flight is perfect!

[J-dog]

Funny George! I have been trying heavier point weights up front and seem to get the best flight with 125 grain points w/100 grain brass inserts. Have not figured the FOC yet. But they are axis 400 shafts, 8 grain weights tubes, 28.5". Being shot out of a 55# 27.5" Silvertip recurve. Arrow weight is around 670 grains, maybe a little more.

Now if all the other factors for good arrow flight, release and form, come together they fly great, and should penetrate thee little NC WTs, and these huge NC blackies (if I am lucky this year) well.

I think you can get too much FOC, or guys just slapping heavy heads on their arrows without finding what flys best.

Later

J

[George D. Stout]

The heavy front of center had to come about because carbon arrows are so dag gummed stiff.  It's generally the only way to tune them.  So heavy front of center, begat extreme front of center, which on carbon arrows isn't necessarily extreme.  On wood and aluminum, which already are available in a multitude of spine and weight, the extreme front of center may not be such a good idea because you have to go to much stiffer shafts.

Guys love to experiment and then they will kill something with it, and then rave about how an ordinary arrow couldn't have possibly attained the same end.  Good grief.  No science here...just hip shooting.

[Dave Bowers]

Yeah this was merely an experiment. I just wanted to see if i could get these very over spinned arrows to shoot and with what size tip would get them to shoot.
They seem to fly great and at my comfortable hunting distance 10-15yrd I suspect they'd work just fine.

[Shooty1]

I'm amazed that 220gr was enough to get those 2317s to fly straight out of a 50# bow. I think they spine around .297".

[Jeff Strubberg]

Well, there is a reason to go with higher FOC if your setup will allow it...

The biggest loss of energy is the "noodling" that happens on impact with the target surface.  If you play around a bit with different materials, you will find out very quickly that the farther away from the point of impact the majority of the weight of the missile is, the more severe the "noodling".  That's also the reason you need less fletching to steer a tip-weighted shaft

Short and sweet, arrows don't whip around as much on impact if the majority of their weight is up front.

[SteveB]

The heavy front of center had to come about because carbon arrows are so dag gummed stiff. It's generally the only way to tune them.  

It may have been ONE reason, but surely not the only one.

Lots of other ways to tune carbon arrows and you can get them them in spines lighter then a .600 deflection - hardly stiff at all.

Steve