ELK CALLING ADVICE

[leatherneck]

Ok all you elk nuts, help a rookie out. This question is about calling. I've been told not to bugle too much.
#1-How do you guys call? I mean, when you start out in the morning how/when do you start your calling?
#2-how often do you bugle when getting no response?
#3- how often do you call when you make "contact" with a bull?
Thanks for any advice you all can give me.

Mike

[Blackhawk]

Where I hunt here in Washington, I have better luck with cow calls.  I'm sure no expert, but love to hunt elk.  I'm sure others with more knowledge and experience will chime in.  

If you bugle when you start out in the morning and get an answer, move immediately and quickly toward him.  Repeated bugling seems to just get the old boy to gathering his gals and they move out.  

Get yourself a "Hoochie Mama" and do more cow calling than bugling.

Where will you be hunting?  The area and amount of pressure the elk can get can have an affect on amount and type of calling. Good luck.

[Pat B]

I've only been on one elk hunt. It was in SW Colorado 2 years ago. It was suggested to me that I not try to bugle because the elk are getting used to and skiddish of bugles. I did carry a cow call and used it a few times when I thought it was appropriate. I learned to call by watching hunting shows on TV and trying to mimic the cows as they called.   Good luck on your first elk hunt!     Pat

[Don Stokes]

Calling elk is much like calling turkeys, in that you let the elk decide how much you should call. If he's hot and answering every time, give it back to him. If he moves away, you can try following and being persistent. That sometimes makes them mad so they will come to run off the threat. The areas I hunted had moderate pressure, but the bulls bugled well if they were in the mood. Again, like turkey hunting, if there are other hunters in the area you may call them in!

They bugle best early and late, so do lots of listening at prime time. Some nights they woke us up in camp.

There's nothing quite like calling in a mad bull who is ripping up trees and brush and screaming out bugles to intimidate his opponent. It'll make your short hairs stand up!

[Missouri Sherpa]

If you are serious about becoming successful at hunting elk there is one thing I will share with you that will help you more than any other advice I can give you.  Get the elknut dvd on calling elk.  If you want to know what call to use when, how often to call, what calls mean, how to answer a bull when he bugles, chuckles, squeals or barks then you will want to have this dvd.  You can call to a bull and drive him away before you even know he is there if you make the wrong vocalization.  Bugling to bulls still works, and so does cow calling, but there are different kinds of bugles and different sounds of cow calls that mean different things.  You don't want to just go out calling, you really want to be able to communicate with the elk and understand what they are saying.  I am not affiliated with this guy in any way but his dvd's have done more to elevate my game than anything else.  I spent years learning how to find elk consistently but found more ways to blow opportunities than you can think of.  Closing the last 100 yards is the hard part and the most fun part of elk hunting.  Get one of these dvds at    http://elknut.com/

[Steertalker]

Mike,

There are others on this site that are immensely more qualified than I to be giving you advice.  But here's my 2 cents.

For a rookie....bugling less rather than more is good advice.  Cow calling is more adviseable.  

Now...with that said....there is nothing wrong with bugling once in awhile to see if you get a response.   And I do mean every once in awhile!  If you don't get a response that doesn't mean there aren't any elk around.  You've got to be patient.  Bugle once and listen.  If no response....sit and wait for at least 30 minutes and see what happens.  Be watching in all directions especially downwind.  You might want tp let out a few soft cow "mews" during this time.  The main idea is to be low impact and not over do it.  If they are there....they'll here you....they just may not respond.  Overdoing it will signal immediately that something isn't right and they'll be outta there.

One thing I would highly advise is getting some tapes of actual elk talk.  How you talk to them depends entirely on how they are talking.  Seriously!  If you must bugle you want to sound like a small satellite bull and not the "bull of the woods".  Unless of course the situation dictates a different approach.  Sometimes the situation does dictate sounding like you are the bad ass of the mountain.  If that is the case....get ready for some serious excitement!!!!

Hope this helps some,

Brett

[j yenney]

My advice is not to call at all. Where I live doesn't have much pressure at all, but there is always people out there calling all the time no matter where you are, and I belive the elk have figured it out everywhere. For my area the second you use a Hoochie mama, or any cow call the elk are bolting to the next county. I use a bugle and locate the elk, then once I'm within 400 yds. the calls get put away.

Good luck

[elk ninja]

My advice would also be to not call at all.  Listen for them.  Figure out where they are.  Elk do seem to have figured out calling I think, and any elk "calling" them that they don't know the voice of, seems to spook them....
My .02.
Mike

[wingnut]

Learning to call effectively is a lifelong challenge.  I've been at it for 40 years and still have situations that leave me scratching my head.  Less is better in most cases.  If you hear bulls bugling, don't answer, stalk them.  When you get close, you can calf call lightly and most of the time locate the herd.  Single bulls will also respond to the calf call.

I would not bugle unless you have some experience.  They will go the other way most of the time.

Mike

[Whip]

Missouri Sherpa is exactly right - get the Elknut DVD's!!!!  By far the best info I have ever found about just what call to use and when to use it.

I tend not to call if I don't have to. I'll use some locator type bugles if I need to, but I prefer to slip around and hope to hear elk talking on their own and then work in as close as I possibly can before calling.  

There are so many different senarios that it is hard to cover everything here, but Elknut does a great job of helping understand what to do.  Get the DVD's.  It will be by far the best money you will spend on getting ready to get after the elk!

[chsnelk03]

Another vote for Elknut...Paul is the man!

[snag]

I think a lot of public elk are getting call shy. There is everyone and his brother out there thinking if they just blow on a call the elk will coming running right into their laps...those days are over for the most part. If you can get back in several miles to animals that aren't getting exposed to this harrassment you will find them more responsive.
I have actually seen a man with his son walking through a good area that I was hunting, walking nonstop! blowing on a bugle! Must be a new method..."trolling for bulls"!
A good start is Elknut's DVDs so at least you will know what sounds to give them in what situations. You have to be able to talk their language or you will push them away.
You need to learn to be quiet and use your eyes real good before you even think about calling.

[monterey]

Cow calling has always worked way better for me than bugling.  You can have elk all around you with them not making a sound, but they are there.  Even when you call, they may not call back but they may be responding silently.  Once a bull let out a short bugle from several hundred yards away immediately after I cow called and he arrived on the scene within two minutes with his nose working like a hound dog.  A nice medium six point.  I had a cow tag.  Arrgh!  

Bugling at a herd bull while you move toward him will almost always send him and his cows away from you.  If you are going to bugle as you move toward a bull that is answering, try to sound like a very small non-threatening adversary.

Sometimes you can call back and forth with a bull for a long time and if you stay put they stay put.  So, if you have a partner, one stays put and keeps him talking while the other moves in.  Not easy getting close to a herd of eyes, ears and noses though!

I treat using a cow call like it is a predator hunt.  Set up and whine for at least 30 minutes or more and then relocate.  Always assume that there is a bull in earshot and he is coming in.  Partnering is very effective because the shooter can be set up at a different location.  The bull knows exactly where the caller is!!

A lot of the guys I hear using a cow call are blowing it all wrong.  Many of them blow with a sharp series of closely spaced and rather harsh mews and chirps.  IMO, those calls are just a small mistake away from being a warning call.  A cow in heat does not make the same call as the cows and calves as they "chat" amongst themselves.  "Chat" is occasional low chirps with no sense of urgency to them.  If you are moving through the woods and you make some noise, a few correct chirps will settle the elk down if they have heard you and are unsettled by the sounds.

My standard hot cow call is a series of three mews about two seconds long and spaced about two seconds apart.  That and the predator technique has accounted for all but a few elk I've called.

Also, don't get me wrong, I AM NOT AN EXPERT WITH ENDLESS SUCCESSES TO MY CREDIT!  I'm just a regular run of the mill hunter passing on what has worked for me over the years.

[Brian Krebs]

another vote for elknut. and ditto what wingnut said; nobody is giving bad advise here.

 I have over 20 consecutive years of elk hunting; and bugling - and yes; the elk are getting smart to calling.

 BUT elk do cow call and bugle. They find where your not - which may be in areas close to homes and farms. While your hearing no bugles on the mountain tops; the elk could be screaming on the rivers edge below.

 First- elk calling is a system; best explained by Will Primos. You have one person at least- calling- and one person that moves in on the bull; and waits for the caller(s) to 'pull' the bull past them.

 That works extrembly well. They may come in silent- they might some in screaming; but they like to stop at 40 yards or so and see what they are responding too.

 So; if your hunting with someone and you do not agree one will stay put; and the other move up and make a stand....then your chances go way down of getting a shot at the bull.

 If your hunting by yourself - then do the wingnut thing.

 If your hunting in an area and everyone is using a hoochie momma- the elk might not respond as well as in areas where they have not chased down the sound: and found hunters.

 I think it is really important to get several cow calls and switch up on the use of them. In a herd; there can be as many different voices of the elk as there are elk. Each one sounds a little different. And what they are saying is important too. ( that is where you go to elknuts site and do some serious studying).

 Personally; I live where the elk do- except right now; when they are a little higher up above the river bugs and in the cool shade of trees. But they do come down all year; and they bugle all year. Not 'lets fight' bugles; but just an occasional 'tarzan yell'.

 When I get to where I think there are elk within hearing; I let out a bugle that is really really loud. I start out with a grumble in my throat; and bring it up to a high pitched scream.

 If they don't hear the high pitch they often will remain silent.

 Then if a bull answers; its first all about where it is bugling from; and how to get there without being spotted; how far away it sounds; what tactic might work. Each situation can be different.

 If your hunting alone; try to get close to the bull; then SET UP and try a soft cow call. The reason I say that; is because when the bull hears that he might wander over... or he might come in on a run. I would bet there are a million stories in the pine needle forests- about bulls running in to a call: BEFORE the shooter was ready!

 If you have a bull responding but holding its ground ( keep in mind if its a big bull it will take the cows out of there- why fight over what you already have --if you don't have to?)- listen to the way the elk bugles; and return the exact same bugle. I don't know why; but that really irks them; and they often will abandon cows to come kick your elky self.

 I have in the past 6 winters had 500 elk within calling range-- all winter. I can see them; this is an open bowl that I live in; and the elk use it.

 So; I can have my binoculars in my hand and try all kinds of cow elk calls to see the reaction.

 I speculate that family groups get together in winter; and as a cow can live for 30 years; her offspring and theirs all pretty much know each others voices.

 I can use a hoochie momma ( I BELIEVE IN HOOCHIE MOMMAS - in the rut) and every elk will immediately come to attention. If I call again; most will move away a distance. In fact I tried many calls - many - and the only one that did not alert the elk was the 'elk inc' call that is a plastic 'book' with a rubber band in it.

 Now why that call does not ever alert the elk; and why I can walk up to them using it ( like when they are eating with my pack animals) I don't know. I do know it works in the hunt; and while I do not rely upon it as other calls (like mouth calls; and hoochies and others) I do keep one in the pocket; as they do work ( unless you get them too wet or get pine needles stuck in them). When I use an 'elk inc' ( the old kind not the new) I bite on the call to start with a high pitch; and then let off on the preasure to make it turn into a softer mew.

 I think the reason most hunters do not get responses and listen to silent forests; is because of their wives. That and the volume adjustment on the tv and cd players.

 I have heard soooooo many elk hunters bugle; and they are bugling at the volume not to bother the neighbors; or their wives. Just the facts ladies !

 I am absolutely sure a woman could out bugle any man in the woods- if they acted like they were calling in the hubby for dinner: while he is in the back 40 riding on his tractor.

 Elk SCREAM OUT BUGLES!! Yes; sometimes a bull will have a sore throat from bugling and not sound loud; or really might be tired from battles; and give out a weak call. He might then take his cows and get out of there.

 But you can get almost any bull to answer if you hit a high pitch loudly in your bugle.

 That is the start; and then what you do after that-- is up to you and fate.

 Good Luck - but warning - its addictive !!

[Blackhawk]

Good post monterey, Brian,  and others with some great tips for us elkhunters.

[AZStickman]

The biggest mistake I see guys making is they learn to make all the right sounds but don't have a good read on the situation and wind up boogering the elk out. The Elknut videos will definitely give you a jump on understanding situational awareness. It took me years to learn through the school of hard knocks what Paul explains in a few hours.Make the right calls at the right time and it's pure adrenaline pumping magic........ Terry

[d. ward]

The video is going to get you headed in the right direction for sure....bowdoc

[denny]

A lot of good advice in this thread. By all means get and memorize Paul "Elknuts" cd's as mentioned above not doing the wrong thing at the wrong time is important and he does a very good job of explaining that.
I'm fortunate to have a good spot with few hunters and wild elk who on the right day will walk right over you coming in to a call, it's the reason I keep going back and so far I've personally managed to commit about every screw up Paul describes.

[SL]

I have better luck not calling!
SL

[JoeM]

I've had good luck with cow calls, but don't forget natural noises.  I've had bulls respond to breaking brush and turned over stones.  I once kicked up two moose while trying to stalk a bull in WY, as they ran away they made a ton of noise, the bull went nuts.  I also had a bull hang up once (50yds) looking for my cow calls so I  began shaking the hell out of a small pine.  He came another 12 yds befor realizing something was up.  Good luck have fun.  Joe