The subject we don't like to discuss . . bad shots

[futuredoc]

A friend of mine have been having an ongoing discussion for years now; he is of the opinion that the wounding rate of traditionalists, in his personal experience, which he will readily admit is limited, is much higher than that of modern compound bow shooters.  I bought a recurve bow about 3 years ago, and I am sad to say I have not done much hunting with it secodary to my having not enough time to become, in my mind, proficient enough to go after whitetails because I never seem to be able to get out of the hospital in time to shoot. But one thing I have noticed in my recent experience with traditional shooters, who do hunt, is that these people, although I respect them a great amount, are not on a level of accuracy that I would feel comfortable loosing an arrow at an animal. I truly am drawn to the sport of traditional bowhunting: one because I love simplicity, two because the equipment just has an allure all its own, and three because I have the utmost respect for those of you that can consistently, cleanly, harvest animals with a stick and string.  But are modern traditional hunters more "sloppy" than the hunters of yester year?  Did Fred Bear and Paul Schaffer wound very few animals?  I know you guys have seen some of the modern "hunting" videos showing poorly hit animals that the crews do seem to find; you know there are many others that are not found. What has been you all's experience with the amount of animals wounded and lost with traditional equipment compared to modern? Do you believe that there just might be a lot of traditional hunters who don't realize their own limitations with the equipment?

thanks to all,

fd

[pintail_drake2004]

I have not harvested a critter with my trad bow yet, but i hunt with a few fellers who have. I have tracked with them on several occasions and it seems to be divided. Bad Shots happen...simple as that! I have hunted for almost a decade now and have harvested at least 1 deer ever year with my compound and have only lost 2 deer (one i found but the yotes got it before i got there, the other we never found). One of the guys i hunt with actually bought me and my bro our first compounds-and that same year he switched to shooting his recurve religiously. This past year he wounded a deer that was never found with his recurve. Is one better than the other? well i have my answer, but yours might differ.

[Shaun]

Won't judge others, but my experience is that with my compound I could miss with the best of them.

Each of us must find our own limitations and that may mean keeping shots under 10 yards for a while. With practice most trad archers get proficient out to 20 yards, a few much further.

I met a guide at the trail head in Oregon a few years back when going in to elk hunt. He was coming out for supplies. He told me one of his hunters had missed a bull with all 5 arrows at 60 yards that day. I hunted 8 days and shot one arrow at an elk - 8 yard shot, I bet you could have made that one count too.

Pick up your recurve and hunt hard, keep your shots real close and enjoy the experience even if you don't get an opportunity to shoot (or miss) a whitetail this year.

[Bear Heart]

As for the question of hunters of the past wounding less game I would say False.  Many of the shots they took would be considered unethical by todays standards.  Different time and way of thinking.
The problem underlying most bad shots is a matter of  shooting outside of you efficiency in terms of distance and shot setup.  This problem is not a respecter of equipment but is instead cause by lack of self discipline.  That being said poor hits will happen and you must except that if you are going to pursue game.

[Onehair]

Having a tracking dog for years, I was called out by many compound guys to recover their poor shots. It ain't about the bow. I always felt that the traditionalist worked harder at the game. Many ( not all) wheel guys get ready the weekend before, some have not shot all year if ever. Walmart is full of guys buying off the rack just days before a hunt. I would suggest you get new friends, they seem to be messing with your head. I have taken some 60 deer with Trad equipment and lost some. But never with a dog

[Orion]

Check out an article by Roy Marlow in the Dec./Jan. 1996 issue of Traditional Bowhunter titled "Traditional Wounding Loss."  He sites a couple of very well done research studies that show that compound shooters with the most gadgets -- sights, releases, etc. -- wound the most deer, followed by compound shooters who use fewer gadgets, i.e., no release.  Traditional bowhunters wound proportionally the fewest deer.  The studies he sites also found that compound shooters also kill more deer than traditional bowhunters.  The conclusion the researchers draw, from shot distance and other data, is that compound shooters take more questionable shots at longer distances.  Those shots result in more kills per hunter, but also more wounding.  As always, it's not the weapon, it's the person using it.

[JL]

I don't buy into that line of thinking. Bad hit's happen, regardless if your using a curve-compound or a rifle. Most folks get some type of rush (aka;buckfever) when deer are within bow range and everyone reacts differently. Some collect themselves and decide to take the shot or pass. Some can barely keep the arrow on the rest as they raise the bow and pluck and pray. These folks need to spend more time in the woods. The more time you spend hunting, the more you understand how to hunt. I too have lost deer early on. I now know that if I drop a string/hammer on a deer, it's going in my freezer.

JL

[mcgroundstalker]

A hunter has to know his limitations. I'd like to think/believe that traditional bowhunters keep the shots at game C-L-O-S-E. Mistakes happen because we are human. That's where tracking skills come to play. Gonna ramble here a bit more.

If you are accurate at ten yards, have the confidence to hit your mark at that distance, then be in the woods hunting. JUST DON'T SHOOT PAST TEN YARDS. Isn't that what archery is all about? Gettin' Close?

... mike ...    ...

[Steelhead]

The guys I know and hunt with have a high success rate and very few wounded unrecovered deer.They practice alot and have good equipment thats tuned properly with well matched arrows and razor sharp heads.They Know when to shoot and when not to and  know thier effective range and stay within it.I cant speak for anyone else but thats my personell experience with the dedicated traditional bowhunters hunters i have hunted with.

Most guys I know who shoot traditional do so with high standards and know exactly how to use thier equipment and what range they are effective at and have the restaint to pass animals when things are not looking very good for a successful outcome.

i have not seen any traditional hunter yet that i would characterize as a slob hunter or an arrow flinger.Alot of them are conservationists and belong to organizations like the Rocky mountain Elk foundation,Ducks unlimited, pheasants forever etc.  and have a high regard for nature,the land and the animals they pursue and have a deep bond with it.

Some i know wont shoot more than 15 yards and prefer less.They stay within thier comfort zone as anyone should whos gonna bowhunt.Others i know are crack shots at 15 to 30 yards and do to their shooting skill  obviously can shoot at game at longer ranges and its totally within reason to make that choice.

I dont believe at all that "alot of traditional hunters dont realize thier own limitations with thier equipment"absolutly not!Not in my experience.

[BMOELLER]

I've lost 2 with a compound over 15 or so years.  I have lost 0 with traditional and so far I'm 5/5.  I have to admit that the two I lost with the wheels were at 40 and 45 yards.  The longest I have killed with a recurve is 32 yrds. the rest were 20yrds and under.

[J-dog]

I feel more comfortable with my silvertip curve than the wheelie bow. I do not know why. I can shoot to 25 yards accuretly(sp?), but also with the compound I could shoot much further on the range but still in the woods I would not shoot past 25 yards.

I think a bad hit is a bad hit, no quantitative data comparing the two? Just opinions. I will keep hunting the curve,

Love the trad and am confident in my ability, to 25 yards. I think the one thing is that trad does take more practice, you have to be dedicated, a compound you can set up and be accurate to 15 yards in minutes, not much fun in my opinion.

You will get it,

J

[futuredoc]

Thanks for your input guys.

[JDice]

While I am sure there are some I have never known a "slob" traditional archer - the discipline required to be a traditional archer seems to limit their numbers. However, there are substantive issues that exist between ethical hunters as to what consitutes an ethical shot. For instance, within the last couple of weeks there was a thread here on whether or not a frontal/front quartering shot was ethical. To generalize that very involved thread - the responses were in two camps - those who thought there were times that frontal shots were OK and those that thought they were never OK. Even though I don't know any of the people on that thread personally, I will bet my next paycheck that every person on that thread believes, strongly, that they are an ethical hunter.

For me - know my limitations, know the limitations of my equipment, know my prey and never take a shot outside those 3 intersecting sets of boundaries is Rule #1. Catch 22 to Rule #1 states that "stuff happens" - the deer jumps the string, I simply miss the heart, the wind gusts as the shot is released, an "invisible" branch deflects the arrow, and so on. When (not if) a bad hit occurs - I am obligated to do everything possible to recover the game animal. To date, I have. I pray I will continue to do so. More practically, I practice, improve my weapons, and study my prey rigorously so, at least, I have a better understanding of my boundaries.

[SteveMcD]

I am familiar with the studies that Orion has written about. And yes, I believe the facts,  also given a McAlester study mentioned in TBM a few years ago, That Traditional Bowhunters actually had the fewest crippling losses.  
 
I also agree with what JL states as well. Stuff happens.

[rybohunter]

THis is actually a huge issue for me internally. I come from a long history of compound shooting with no losses. Misses early on, lots of em, but no wounds & lost. Last season was the 1st picking upa trad bow in over 20 years. I missed a do at 14-15 yds, my max at the time, she ducked.

This year I am headed to the woods with a better feeling bow, much more confidence, but I still have that what if in the back of my head. I KNOW when I released the arrow on a deer with my compound, it was going to be dead. No matter how much I practice, I still have that "what if" question with my trad bow. Maybe I just need to finally down one and get past it. I'm not worried that I'll take a shot beyone my means, 90% of my CP shots are between 12-13 yds. We'll see come this fall.

[Ray Hammond]

If his experience is limited then why has he formed an opinion?

That's something like saying " all pygmies are nose pickers" when you've never been near a pygmy.  

Kind of short on cognative brain cells to form a firm opinion on a subject you know little about.

[pdk25]

Ray,
I've seen alot of nose pickers but never a pygmy nose picker.  I be they would have a terrible release.

[Widowbender]

Know your limitations...practice...practice some more...I've only been hunting with a stickbow for a year and a half...after twenty with a compound...I don't feel handicapped having a stickbow in my hand, Still been able to put meat on the table...just have to hunt harder...use the old brain a little more...most of the stickbow hunters I know are KILLERS...I don't know if they pick their nose or not...

David

[WidowEater]

an experienced compound shooter can put arrows fraactions of an inch apart from one another at a target. A traditional shooter can typically put them in a five in diaameter circle.  Both are good enough for hunting.  But thats just s target.  Hunting has a way of manipulating circumstances

[Onehair]

You have to get past that rybo. I know this can be taken a lot of ways but they don't live long anway. You should be certain at some range. Stick to that, get a couple of kills under your belt and do the best that you can to trail them up.