Grizzlies and tanto tips

[Missouri CK]

I am trying to get some Grizzly broadheads sharpen and am seeing first hand some of the difficulty involved with this process. I have read about the custom sharpening services available but I want to learn how to do this myself so I can replicate it in the field if needed.

I build a jig based on the recommendations of Stephen Sheetz (SOS).
  http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=060487  
I tried to use a disc sanding wheel but I couldn't get it right and ruined two heads before I could figure out what I was doing wrong.  So...I just broke out a file and used the jig with a file.  

I can get the angle changed pretty decent and even get them where they are fairly sharp although its not great.

However in doing this I have really distorted the tanto tip.  Here is a picture to explain.

 

Look at the broadhead in the middle that has the brass insert.  See how the tanto has basically disappeared on side of the bevel.  

I tried to build a 30d angel gig for the tanto tips but even with a very small 4 inch file I'm gouging the end of the tip when trying to restore the tanto.  On another one I inadvertently ended up rounding the edge in my ill-fated efforts.  

 

This last picture shows what I've tried to do so far on the other three heads. Notice how their are gouged out rough spots on the edge of the tanto with the head on the far right.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Chris

[beaver#1]

glad you posted this, i just got some of these in.  would love to hear hot things turned out once you figured it out

[ChuckC]

If you have access to a Lansky jig and a belt sander, check out the thread I added a few days ago.
ChuckC

[Kingwouldbe]

Chris, scrap the jig, the Tonto tip is only on the bevel side, I make mine kinda off set so it looks like it will screw into what ever it hits.

 

This is a vary strong tip, I do it by hand on a file & stone but only on the one side.

Remember when sharpening anything, it's about keeping the same angle as you go.

Also the trick to getting Grizzlies sharp with a single bevel is to get the beveled side all the way over to the back side, so all you have to do it straighten out the back side then polish it to a razors edge.

Hope this helps

[Missouri CK]

Did I miss something or didn't Ashby's report indicate that the tanto should be on both side or on the opposite side as the bevel to avoid skip angles or somthing like that?  I'm almost certain that he recommends that configuration.

[SoNevada Archer]

The tanto tip is put on just like Kingwouldbe shows. You end up with bevels on both sides (if looking at the tip from a coming at you perspective) This tip design is very strong.
Just so you guys know, I'm a knife-maker and have put this type of edge on knives...they do cut well!

[zilla]

I am interested in seeing the tip from the front.

[Mike Orton]

Chris,

I've watched you wrestle with this Grizzly singel bevel sharpening thing.  Partner, please refer back to this post I made last December 07:

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=054399#000000

I promise you'll not go wrong using this tool.  It's important that you not dry grind on that Grizzly metal as you'll ruin the temper.  The key is to use water as a coolant and lube.  The tanto tip created by this tool is incredible.

The beauty of this tool is the "repeatability" that the jig fixture offers.

[Sharpster]

I'm sure that the good Doctor will chime in and correct me if I'm wrong on this but...

Last we heard from Ed he was still testing the 3 different ways that the tanto could be sharpened:

1)single bevel from the same side as the primary bevel.

2)Double beveled both sides.

3) Single beveled from the opposite side of the primary bevel.

I'm quite sure that he had come to the conclusion that #1 was the worst performing style an was prone to skipping off bone on any angle/quartering shots. #s 2 and 3 were both much better at digging in but he was leaning towards #3 as the best performer.

As for distorting the shape of the tanto itself, that's very easy to do! The best way I know to keep them all similar to each other is with a disk sander like SOS uses. Clamp a board on the tool rest/table of the sander and mark a big bold line on the board at the angle you want. Then line the broadhead up with the line on the board and just bump the tip into the sander for a half a second at a time so you don't overheat it.

Forming the tanto should be done after the main blade bevel has been ground and the tanto should be ground blunt. (don't shape and sharpen at the same time). Then sharpen with a single bevel from the side opposite the primary bevel.

Hope this helps and like I said, Doc's due back very soon and he'll correct me if I'm wrong on this.

Ron

[Kingwouldbe]

Hi Ron,

Just a question on #3 if you sharpen the tanto tip on the opposite side as the primary bevel aren't your forces canceling each other out?

If my broadhead is turning to the right and on impact the leading edge wants to turn it to the left, then as the primary bevel takes over it wants to turn back to the right?

Thanks

[fyrfyter43]

I don't think the tanto tip would be enough to even slow down the rotation imparted by the fletching, and the bevel-induced rotation would take over pretty much immediately on impact.

But I do think that the tanto tip being bevelled opposite of the main blade bevel is what helps the tip to "dig in" and I think it has a bit to do with what Doc Ashby refers to as "skip angle".

[Sharpster]

Dave,

That's a better question for Ed himself. There are two primary reasons that the tanto tip is the best design.

A needle point is very prone to curling or bending so just modifying the shape of the point to the tanto adds a great amount of strength to the tip.

Chisel tips are stronger than needle points but they are more likely to skip off of bone on angle shots. The sharpened tanto causes the point to grab into the bone solidly and reduces the likelyhood of the head skipping.

As for why the different sharpening styles produce such different results... That's best left to Ed to explain. I only know that this is what the testing was showing the last we heard from him. I would only guess that because the sharpened tanto has such a small surface area  it probably doesn't have any effect on the rotation but, I'm guessing here for sure.

Ed will be back on line in the next week or so and he'll be able to answer all of our questions.

Ron

[ifalls_archer]

I don't know if anyone has tried one, however, I was just at Menards for other items and walked by the grnders and saws and found a little performax 4.5" wet grinder for $35.  It has an adjustable tool holder and bi-directional wheel.  My grizzly's will be tried tonight and I'll post tomorrow on results.

Brent

[Jason Jelinek]

Brent,

My friend purchased that same grinder and I made up a jig from a 2x4 with 25 degree angle like SOS posted.  I had to play around with the tool holder until it was centered on the wheel.  When I got it centered, the jig worked pretty well.  The grinder took the metal off easily and left a decent bevel behind.  A little work with the Lansky at 30 degrees and it was shaving.

Jason

[Kingwouldbe]

Hey guys can you post a pic of that grinder or where I could find one please.

It sounds like it could save a lot of time.

Thanks

[WidowEater]

heres the link to SOSs sharpening jig and instructions

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=060487;p=1

[ifalls_archer]

Well I tried the performax wet sharpener on some tuskers tonight before I do the grizzlys.  I found out there is even more that I don't know...  After about 1.5 hours of playing around I have something that resembles an edge but way more learning before I call anything sharp.

Here is the link on the wet sharpener
 http://www.performaxpower.com/90255.html

Brent

[Kingwouldbe]

Thanks Brent

[Lone archer]

Check out this link. Never used it but not a bad price.http://grizzly.com/products/H6069

[ifalls_archer]

Lone archer,

That is the same machine I bought only different color and $10 more.

Brent