elk help please

[BigJim]

I am helping a friend set up his bow and arrows for an elk hunt. His set up is 44lbs at his draw length of 24.5"s. He is shooting a 554g arrow 145fps Or a 450g arrow at 156fps. The heavier arrow has a slight bit more kinetic energy.

I am not so familiar with the light poundage bow set ups, will this be enough for elk?

thanks, BigJim

[Dave2old]

This response is an invite to criticism, but my honest opinion, based on half a lifetime of hunting, shooting, killing and losing elk with stickbows, is that this is a setup for disaster, not even close. Since my heart is with the ethical justification of trad bowhunting, my heart thus must go with the game we hunt. Thanks to you, and to your friend, for asking advice. My advice is, please forget it. dave

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

44# at 24.5" is this a youth? That is awful light to go elk hunting with I would definately try to use a more powerful bow, at least 50#. I hunt with a guy that uses a 50# and he HAS gotten elk with it but he shoots every day and only shoots close (under 20) If you do go with that set-up make sure your Bhead is SHARP and only take a perfect shot. but I would definately reconsider the bow.

[todd smith]

Have been reading "Man Made of Elk" and you'll find some excellent advice in there.  When you learn from another man's experience you can save yourself some heartache.

Even though I have had good luck with bows in the "just under 50#" range, I respect Dave Petersen's opinions especially when it comes to elk.

He recommends "Heavy arrows for heavy game."  

Not too heavy though, you still must be accurate.

He mentions that a 50# or more recurve or longbow can send a 600-650 arrow accurately to the 20-yard mark.

So that might be a good target for your friend to shoot for.  Min of 50# and arrows in the 600-650 weight range.

todd smith

[Richie Nell]

Totally agree with Dave....44 lbs. and 554 grains is toooo light for elk.  There is a point in which you just don't need to do it and this is that point.  

Begin pulling and shooting a 55+ lb. bow over and over and over.  It will not be long at all before most adults can pull that weight.  Then get an arrow weighing around 650+ grains and your set.

If this isn't possible for some reason, just punt and hunt javelina.

[Bill Kissner]

This was hashed around on another site about a week or so ago. A large majority opined that this setup would be very marginal for elk. I agree with Dave, it is just too light and the hunter needs to work up to a heavier bow.

[Brian Krebs]

People have killed elk with less. After hunting elk a couple decades; I would prefer an accurate shot; and trust it more to kill over a heavy bow that cannot be shot straight.

 I am going to put it on the line and say that in reality- the 'vital area' on an elk is smaller than the 'vital area' on a deer.

 I say that from comparing shots that killed deer; and identical shots that elk survived.

 If you have the nerves; and the presence of mind; you can make a bow work for you--- what was the average weight of the bows the indians used on elk and bison??

 Sharp broadheads and straight shooting!

[Richie Nell]

Brian...Why do you imply a heavy bow cannot be shot straight?  It can be shot just as accurate as any bow.  
That sounds like a way of justifying shooting as light as you "have to" instead of as heavy as you can. I believe "heavy as you can" is out of respect for the animal and good stewardship as an elk hunter.

Also the smaller vital area of an elk combined with more experienced people than me suggesting an elk can run all day on one lung only confirms that a heavier more damaging bow/arrow setup is the proper medicene.

Thanks

[nurayb]

I would check and see that it is even legal in the state they intend to hunt.  There are certain requirements in some states.  Either way, you are not shooting at an 80 pound whitetail, elk are very big and tough.  No way would I even consider such a set up.

[Bjorn]

My son is 15 he generates 42# from a 50#@28 bow, and he worked hard to get there. He has killed hogs and a sheep; but we decided that we would wait a year for our Elk hunt together.
In another year he will be able to do 50# plus at his draw, or we will wait another year.
I think folks need to accept their limitations and hunt animals they can realisically kill cleanly with their chosen tools-or pick some other tools.
The set up you are talking about is fine for deer and there is nothing wrong with suggesting to your friend he/she go deer hunting.
In hunting there are few things worse than wounding an animal and not being able to recover it.

[j yenney]

I would have to disagree with the comments. No disrespect inteded to the others, but I have done a lot of elk hunting with recurves and had some sucess. I belive that that set up is fine so long as your friend has a level head and will have the pateince to wait until the shot presents itself from 20 yds and under, which is the average shot on elk anyway (20 yds)and under.The comment about the one lung hit is not true. What makes that comment true is if that idiot is not patience and try's to run the elk down instead of waiting 45+ minutes like a person should, That is one thing I've learned when you shoot an elk (give him plenty of time).  Like Brian said, indians used less. Anytime you post a question like this the "MAGNUM BOYS" will always be the first to respond. Good luck

[BigJim]

I apreciate the help fellas. I am building him a heavier bow. His is currently 50lb @28" but only 44 @ 24.5" which is his draw (sawed off little runt)HaHa. I am familiar with the kinetics, just not familiar with light hunting weight.
He has been wanting a heavier one anyway. has shot a bow I made for another customer (60 @ 28) and felt that it was  no problem to work up to.

I like my guys to pick weights that take a little shooting to maintain. This at least shows desire. If they only intend on shooting target bows than any weight would be accecptable. After all, one reason that many people have switched to traditional is because it is more of a challenge and requires more effort and not less.

thanks again, BigJim's Bow Company

[Richie Nell]

No disrespect intended here as well but the "MAGNUM BOYS" use bows that are more suited for elk hunting than the "LOW BRASS" boys.

Please note....I certainly don't classify trad hunters in such a way but since you brought it up.....

[Steertalker]

BigJim,

I am by no means an expert elk hunter but I have done quite a bit of elk hunting over the last few years.  I must say I am a bit torn on your question.  My first reaction is to agree with everyone and say no.....it's way to light.  But....when you consider what the American indians hunted with.....you go hmmmm.....your friends setup is probably way more efficient.

They thing that must be considered is that the indians probably took very close shots.  And I think that is the key.  Your friend needs to have the discipline to restict his shots to less than 10 yds in my opinion.  Why 10 yds???  Because his arrow needs to start making contact with the elk before it has time to move significantly.  He also needs to place his shot right in the armpit....broadside only.  Anything else....forget it.

Two years ago I shot a 5x6 bull at 3 yds.  I was shooting a 67 lb @ 28 3/4 inches Brackenbury Quest using Easton Axis ST 340's tipped with Zwicky Eskimos......total arrow weight was 630 grs.  I hit him broadside through the meaty part of his shoulders(above the elbow jt but below the scapula) getting a complete pass through of the BH but not the arrow.  At the moment of release the bull started to react and did a "quarter horse" spin around right infront of me.  That little manuever kept my arrow from going completely through him and as a result broke my arrow into 4 pieces inside his chest cavity.

Soooo my point is.....getting good penetration on a static animal is one thing, but getting good penetration on one that is tensing up muscles and spinning and reacting is another thing all together.  And that is where the extra power comes in.

Am I telling you no????  Not exactly.  Your friend needs to understand that he is hunting with equipment that has severe limitations for the task at hand and as long as he stays within those limitations he should do OK.

Brett

[aromakr]

In the above answers there is a lot of "IF's" "and's" and "Buts". many of the answers coming from conjecture not experience! I can tell you I have one client who's wife shoots a 42# Texas recurve, in Africa she took 17 animals with 17 arrows. up to and including Kudu, Zebra, and Wildebeest. Its all about properly tuned arrows and sharp broadheads shot from reasonable distances and not taking marginal shots. Yes it can be done with that equipment, but I would feel better with more weight.

Bob

[j yenney]

Hey Richie,

There's "Magnum Boys" in every type of hunting no matter what weapon you use. So how's the elk herd in Alabama ?

[Richie Nell]

No luck today on the elk....

Like I said I didn't bring up "Magnum boys" but it seems like common sense to me to hunt a Magnum animal with a magnum bow/arrow setup.

Sure a bull elk could be killed with a very light weight setup if everything goes just right.....but correct me if I am wrong, it seems you are implying that it is not better for hunters to use a heavier setup.

[Steertalker]

The question of minimum bow weight for elk has come up before.  About a year ago or so this very subject came up and Paul Brunner (8th Dwarf) posted his comments which were very interesting and a must read for anyone contemplating trying to shoot an elk with light weight tackle.  I have tried to do a search for that thread til I'm blue in the face but for some darn reason I can't find it.  Hopefully one of the moderators will recall what I am talking about and post a link to it.

At any rate, I believe he recommended a minimum draw weight of 60 lbs and absolutely nothing other than very sharp 2 bladed BH's.

BTW.....I believe he said he had killed over 30 something elk in his career as well as many species of African game, including Cape Buffalo.  So....I think the man knows what he's talking about and any comments he has about elk hunting should be weighed heavily.

Brett

[j yenney]

Richie- I personally use 54#'s to hunt with, but when I was younger I killed elk with bow's in the low to mid 40's. I'm not saying that if a guy can shoot a 60# bow, well don't use the 60# bow. I'm simply stating that a bow in the mid 40's will work just fine, so long as your responsible with your shots and keep the shot's under 20 yds. What upset's me about this question that get's asked time and time again is that no matter what forum or magazine this question get's asked in a Rifle or Bow is that Somebody always has a very fast response in saying, that you need at least a 300 win. mag or a 60 pd. bow, (which is absolutely crazy) to take an elk down. I have all the respect for elk and will not jeopardize a bad shot to wound one. I don't care what anybody says, Elk are not that hard to kill, with good arrow placement and a good wait time they are no more difficult to kill than a deer.

[Richie Nell]

Point well taken and fully understood....

But it is a "given" that all shots should be responsible and in a responsible range and not jeopardized to wound one regardless of the bow.  
That is not the issue.

The issue is the less than perfect, not in the boiler room shot that we all speak of here that needs to be more lethal.  

And that ain't coming from a 40 lb. bow.  

I am not saying that it is a requirement or that you NEED to use a 60 lb. bow in order to kill an elk.  I am saying that I think a hunter NEEDS to use a heavier bow and arrow for ethical reasons and respect for the animal.  I think it is ethically wrong for a hunter to be satisfied with hunting elk with a 40ish lb. bow just because of... "Yea, my father-in-law's uncle's brother's wife killed a monster 8X8 bull one day with a 41 lb. fiberglass bow with a 225 grain arrow.  The arrow only went in one lung but he eventually died."  

Sure that could possibly happen but for the elk's sake don't half way encourage anyone to try it.  That is the wide road.  

You certainly have more elk hunting experience than me but I just believe there has to be an ethical line drawn somewhere that encourages hunters to NOT chase game with unreasonable equipment.

Thanks for the conversation