Alum. shaft durability

[Labs4me]

Morning Gang:

This post is directed at those who prefer to shoot aluminum arrows. Specifically, my question pertains to arrow diameter vs. wall thickness and how these two factors relate to DURABILITY. We're all aware that, when we look at an arrow recommendation chart, we find that various shaft sizes are recommended for a given draw weight and arrow length. We're also aware that, for a given shaft size- say a 2219, for example- the first two digits represent the diameter of the shaft, while the last two digits represent the wall thickness of that shaft.

So when comparing a 2512 shaft to a 2219 shaft, the 2512 shaft will have a larger diameter, but the 2219 will have a significantly thicker wall. If both shafts fly great from a given bow, and you had to choose between the two shafts (2512 or 2219) BASED ON DURABILITY ALONE, which shaft would you choose?

A friend of mine who is a civil engineer (but doesn't bowhunt so he has no practical experience with arrow durability) thought that the 2512 (larger diameter, thinner wall) would be more durable than the 2219 (smaller diameter, thicker wall). This opinion flies directly in the face of my own practical experience with arrows.

DISREGARDING OTHER CONSIDERATIONS such as arrow speed, arrow weight, arrow penetration, etc.- in your experience, which aluminum arrow would be more durable- an arrow having a larger diameter and a thinner wall, or an arrow having a smaller diameter and a thicker wall?

[Van/TX]

The 2512 might be stiffer that the 2219. I don't have one to test.  The 2219 should be more durable.  It's very easy to collapse the wall of a thin walled aluminum in practice.  At least that's been my experience when shooting 2213's and 2018's...Van

[indymark]

I've used 2219 and 2020 shafts for years.  When I hurt my shoulder I switched to a lighter bow with 2016 shafts, and had more dented shafts than I was accustomed to.  I'm using 2020's again, and things seem back to normal.

[SlowBowinMO]

I've used 2219's a lot in the past, they are about as bomb proof as you'll find in aluminum IMO.  Regarding aluminum, in my experience the thin walled shafts are not near as durable, regardless of spine, as the thicker walled ones.  I reckon a dozen 2219's would out last 2512's about 3 to 1 in actual shooting.

I personally think the compound bow and "thirst for speed" is what opened the door for carbons.  So many compound shooters were shooting 2213's and 2312's to get speed, but they were not very durable.  In came carbon.  If the preferred arrows had remained the 2117's and 2219's everybody used to shoot, the sweep to carbon would have been much slower IMO.

I shoot mostly wood these days, but aluminum remains my preferred alternate.  My current aluminums are mostly 2018's now, and they are quite durable.

[WESTBROOK]

Used to shoot 2219 out of my recurves for years, they are TUFF. The 2512 may spine the same but the fatter shaft may act stiffer because thecenter of your arrow is farther from the side plate. 2219 any day! I still have a bunch. but there too stiff for my current bows.

Eric

[Shawn Leonard]

Yup the 2219 has the thicker wall thus making it stronger and the 2512 will act stiffer due to the fat diameter, compound ya would not notice the spine difference, but t6he 2219 is just as tough out of both bows, that is why 2020s are a mean tough arrow, thick wall on those shafts! Shawn

[KodiakBob]

The most durable arrows are one that hit the target. Hard to break when they hit the backstop all of the time. The most durable for target shooting are X7s with target glue-in points as the skip off objects. I shoot 2213s either broken or straight.

[Bowspirit]

2219 is the stronger of the two, hands down, no contest...

[waterone]

No reflection on you or the engineer, but I think his frame of reference is a little skewed.  Without knowing what exactly the question, you are he are probably talking about two different things.  In some ways he is right.  Remember, engineers think in long terms, at least most of the civil engineers I know.  He may not be thinking about the impacts that arrows see.  As far as long term stablitty, from a materials standpoint the thinner cylinder of AL will be stiffer longer, able to handle what stresses he estimates.

Practial expereince will tell you that the old thick wall small diameter do what we as archers. need.

BTW, carbons weren't invented as arrows for compounds in "the need for speed" they were invented to find what might have been a superior arrow material. fiberglass was tried and used by Fred Bear, and was a pretty good arrow material.  Anyone remember the old Microflites?  AL just was SO inexpensive. Carbons were "invented" for recurves.  A compound is not an evil device     At least I I don't think they are.

I'm not an engineer, just have worked with them for nearly 30 years and know how they think. Most of them a pretty doggone good.  

charles

[Wudstix]

In my experience the closed the wall thickness is to the diameter the tougher the arrow.

[Jerry Jeffer]

2219 ALL THE WAY.

[nc recurveman]

I'm shootin 2419's those thing are pretty near explosive proof. I fella was pulling arrows at 3-d this weekend he was putting them thru the torture test and they've all passed so far.

[DarkeGreen]

I can lose them both equally fast.  

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

I used to shoot 2512's for field rounds. They'd dimple and dent quite easily. 2219's are much, much stronger.

[Jeff Strubberg]

I just switched away from aluminum this year after shooting them for 14 years.  FWIW, I wouldn't use a shaft with the last two digits at less than 16.  They simply wouldn't hold up to my patterns of shooting and hunting.

Your mileage may vary.

[Shawn Leonard]

If target shooting that may be fine but go stump shooting where I do sometime. I shoot carbons and my brother shot aluminum, but not for long. He would go thru 5-7 arrows in a session and I would break one, maybe. I find wood holds up better when a field than aluminum as well! Shawn

[joe skipp]

I shoot swagged 2117's and they are tough and hold up well when stumpshooting and deer hunting.
I definately would favor the 2219's...stronger and more durable.

[Arwin]

Anything with 16,17,19 or 20 for wall thickness has been tough to beat.

[Bowspirit]

Think you're forgetting 18 there, Arwin. Them 2018's sure make for one tough arrow...

[Arwin]

Oops my bad! I had forgot the nearly indestructable 2018. Thanks bro! BTW I like the 2018' because they weigh so much. I'm a huge fan of heavy arrows.