Circle the wagons...

[Arwin]

Hippies.......

[Jake H]

Not socialism, not hippies, not some vast conspiracy.

Parents and bureaucrats.

When those two get more worried about 'safety and order' than liberty, you will always see a creeping trend to Zero Tolerance 'safety' policies which start out with 'reasonable' rules and, when those inevitably fail (and they will) move  on through increasingly severe and ridiculous rules combining parental paranoia with the bureaucratic maxim: If a bad idea fails we need to do it more and harder (with more funding).

Parents love rules because it gives them peace of mind.
Bureaucrats love 'zero tolerance' because it protects them from thinking.

The combination is ALWAYS disastrous for common sense and liberty.

(yes, I know 'not all parents are like that'  and yet.. they are.  The ones who aren't paranoid about weapons are paranoid about drugs, computers, sex education,  pick your bugbear.   WE all want to protect our children and it's almost impossible to stay rational about that.  It's not a bad instinct (it's a GOOD instinct), but it's a bad way to develop policy)

Jake
(who wishes schools would stick to education and leave social engineering to families)

[BigRonHuntAlot]

Well said Jake... but Jason's got a good point too. LOL    As Ron White say's  " You can't fix Stupid"

[Arwin]

How about Stupid Bureaucratic Socialist Hippie Parents who are paranoid about everything? They could start an organization called the S.B.S.H.P.
    I'm just poking. It is a sad issue and would still like to write them a letter.

[kerry]

I'm sorry that happened to your nephew. At 6 yrs old, I hope you can explain that he did nothing wrong and I hope he is not discouraged, or intimidated from archery.

[Jake H]

Hi Ron,

First, thanks for the kind words.  Second, permit me to ramble abit ...

You're exactly right.  You CAN'T fix stupid.  (I do tech support for a living, trust me on that one    )

So, that gives us two choices:

1 Give up and learn to live with it (since you can't fix it)

or

2 Analyze the problem, find the fixable causes and FIX them.

I've found, generally, that people do not like to think of themselves as stupid and giving up at calling them that rarely promotes beneficial change.

Especially when they're not 'stupid'.  Your average weapon-fearing suburban soccer mom isn't necessarily stupid (not Einstein, but not my cousin Joe either).  She has a gap in her knowledge and experience and has filled the gap (as we all tend to do) with emotions.

Add to that the fact that some very VERY smart people have been manipulating her perceptions to further their own agendas. (if you dig deep enough 'safety' is almost always a stalking horse for something else).

So we have this poor, confused person who wants nothing more than for her children to be safe,  feels completely incapable of keeping them so because she gets TOLD constantly that the monsters under the bed are too vast and powerful for her to stop and that no one is 'doing enough' to stop them either.  Like fearful people since the stone age, she looks for something she CAN control in order to save her children from the Bad Bad Things (TM).

We see that as 'stupid' because we have the knowledge and experience to know better and fail to realize that that is because we possess that specialized knowledge (how it became special rather than common knowledge and why that's sad is a whole separate rant    )

So, she is no more 'stupid' for not understanding that  than most people are 'stupid' for not understanding that Calculus is as *beautiful* as any piece of art ever conceived by the mind of man.

She's just misguided.  This is how the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Where it becomes a 'stupidity' problem is when we present her with all the necessary and correct information and she disregards it in order to stick with familiar emotional ignorance.

Ignorance (the lack of knowledge) is easily remedied.  Stupidity (the insistence on clinging to ignorance when knowledge is available), cannot be cured because it is a delusion and only the sufferer can choose to release themselves from it.

Jake
(who is perpetually amazed at the unwillingness of 'educators' to learn)

[Jake H]

Arwin,

That's just flat out funny!  :D

But for goodness sake, don't let them organize!          

One thing that forever amazes me about stupid people is that they wouldn't acknowledge a fact if it fell on them out of a tree, but they can form a national organization in less time than it takes me to sneeze.

Jake
(who supposes that 'herding' is a genetic reflex for sheep minds)

[Adirondack Bowman]

Just think, our tax dollars pay for this crap.

[Robert Honaker]

Kids are only supposed to play video games nowadays.Didn't we know that?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Well guys....since i live 30 miles south of Portland Oregon. And Yes.....Its
"On the left coast", to answer the guy from Tennessee.......The answer to why times are changing in more populated areas is that there are more scum bags preying off of other people there than there are people stalking prey. Kids growing up now are being raised by two generations of people that think a blood trail is the juice that comes out of the package of meat while taking it from the fridge to the sink. These are the same people that call themselves conservationists, and animal actiists, and enviormentalists. Oregon used to be real country all over and had a saying, "Don't Californicate Oregon"......Its too late now folks....we've been had! Don't get me wrong here. There is still plenty of wide open spaces here, and some good down home country folks too. I consider my self one of them. But drive into the city and its a different world. These little schools in the country out here still have their share of defiant children and assorted drug issues. But the percentages are much smaller.
 The cops in the cities are running scared too, and i don't blame them. The media hypes up the unknowing peope who have been raised in Condo's with alarm systems and wire mesh over there windows their whole life.....These parents of kids now days are so busy working, their kids hang out on the streets instead of learning to use an axe and how to build a fire, much less learn to hunt....HEAVEN FORBID!!!!

Now it even gets better.....Our technology is getting so carried away in the archery industry creating these new high speed arrow spitting contraptions, i belive they will have to be registered before its all over with! I'm not talking trad here guys...as you well know. But its going to effect allof the the archers out there. I just sold my new contraption, i got disgusted with the whole thing.....I don't want any part of it....If joining traditional archers in preserving this age old art form means i eat a little less veison.....so be it! Actually i think it will be just the oposite honestly. I live out in the country for a reason. My daughter was raised with a bow in her hand and cut her teeth on elk jerky.....Kids in the city now days think jerky comes in a bag with big red letters on it......unfortunately so do their folks.....Half of of them are anorexic vegetarians too......It's sad.....

I'm done guys...I put in a little more than my .02 cents worth i know, but it ticks me off!...I'd get a scum bag attourney and raise cane if it happened to my grandson....

Nuff Said ...........

[camocowboy]

I played for the Oregon Bowhunters a couple of years ago. Drove down the coast and saw some of the most beautiful scenery I have ever seen. I could almost see myself hunting where Chet Stevenson "the old bowhunter" had spent so much time. The one thing that bothered me' being from the bible belt was the absence of churches. We saw very few while we were there. We all need to get our game faces on, get off the bench and get involved in the political system. I have always believed that ,in America, anything that happens, does so because we sat back and allowed it to happen. Confront this situation with truth, if you don't, your nephew will never be able to enjoy the gift that you have given him.  JB

[Ian johnson]

at my high school, last year in civics class I was acused of being one of those crazy columbine highschool shooters when I mentioned I hunted in class, then some girl, who belongs to peta, kept talking about how its people like me who are going to destroy natures creatures, it made me furious!!!!!!!!

[Jeff Strubberg]

Sounds like a good time to make a call to a local radio or television station....I bet the press would have a field day with a school trying to control the free speech of a child...

[NDTerminator]

This sort of thing is one of the reasons I left Minnesota in the 70's and moved to rural ND. I've never looked back. The writing was on the wall even back then.

I'm not much of a political person, but last week it occured to me that all the liberals from the Clinton Years are still in office but now the majority, and there's a darn good chance one of their clan will be elected president in 08'.  

Not a pretty picture for hunters, gun owners, and outdoors-folk...

[Montana Slim]

We can only HOPE some of some of the liberals from Clinton's administration have some clout...  Otherwise there will not be any blue stem for those antelope to run in or salmon in the river for that grizzly to fish...  Say what you will about some of his personal choices, but the progress he made environmetally will not be matched for some time I'm afraid. (and unfortunately has even been reversed during the last 7 years)
I realize that I am probably in the minority in the group, being of liberal mind(read Hippie/Tree hugger/whatever if you must) but I am frustrated with many of the same things you guys mention on this forum...  
In the case of bowfiend's nephew, I completely agree that what happened is absolutely rediculous and it frustrates me that this is what things have come to in some parts of the country.  HOWEVER, it seems pretty easy to hop on the computer and bash hippies with people who already agree with you, than to take that effort and try to educate someone else who falls into the category that Jake H hit right on the head.
Just remember, bashing us goofy hipppies and leftists is pretty easy sometimes, but there are some of us really trying to make a difference. (spoken like a true bleeding heart I know...but hey)  
The apathy of the average hunter (gun/bow/whatever) is what will ultimately be the downfall of hunting.
Tradgang is a great site and I hadn't really seen a thread like what this one turned into on here yet, and I hope as a group we can discuss issues like these with the goal of accomplishing something rather than just sniping...
Just my .02 - RAY

[dachba]

This is so sad.  I love Oregon and considered it a possibility as a home back in 2000.  I chose Ft. Collins, CO instead and am very glad I did.

Oregon is on the left coast, but it, as is Washington State, are incredibly beautiful outdoor places.  How did the weirdos get in control of such incredible places?

Just venting.
Dave in Ft. Collins, CO

[Bard1]

The reason and only reason Oregon seems left is becasuse of Portland and Eugene.  The two largest population centers for the state are a culture to themselves.  i.e. very left.  Most of the rest of the state is in fact very conservative.  Sadly being the largest population centers they control the political direction of the state.  When I read about what happened to his Nephew I was not at all suprised it took place in Portland.  Any other part of the state and I doubt it would have been an issue at all.
The other thing to keep in mind, is Oregon DID have a school shooting here as well back in '97 or '98.  There were fatalities.  I believe since this happened "close to home" it has put Oregon city schools on ultrasensative high alert.
Derek

[Brian Krebs]

This seems like a perfect court case; as it is all about freedom of speech.
 Its not about violence and murder.
  Its about hunting: which is a legal and socially excepted behavior ( or it would not still exist). And its about archery- which many people have pointed out used to be a school activity- and is not an illegal act.
 Archery is still a olympic sport.
The shame is that a lawsuit would put the burden of all our actions upon the 6 year old. It would be 'cameras- lights-and action'. All buzzing around the child.
 It is a good question: to ask how the history of our country is taught- can they sing the national anthem..??..do they have to hum the parts about the 'rockets red glare'; the bombs bursting in air'?
 If you study about Columbine; and you find the root of the hatred of the children; it was not based in the guns and the bombs they used to express it!
  Something has to be done. I do realize Oregon is 'Californias Canada'- but geesh- it really is still in the USA.
  I have a dear friend that moved to Oregon about 25 years ago; and I met her daughter at my sons wedding. Her daughter; raised in (California and Oregon cities) was freaked out over a glass of water I gave her. Why? Because she could not "taste any chemicals" in my well water!!
  Water to her "should taste like chemicals!"!
I am not sure how to fix all this - but it does seem within our reach to create a system where kids like this- get acknowledged by us in some positive way.
  Maybe just a card that we all sign- some kind of acknowledgement that they are a good person; and not what's wrong with the world.
  Cause this kid- he is sitting there wondering if he is part of the wrong in this world; afterall-- action was taken against him as if he is.
  We have enough creative people here to come up with a solution that 'accents the positive;eliminates the negative; and holds on to the affirmative- and watches out for inbetween'..whoops--------
  That dang gun toting Roy Rogers: got me singing again.
Really- there should be something we can do that adds to this kids opinion of himself.
  Nothing that has been said here so far does that; and I know that's not right!

[Jimbob]

It is the trend to come unless each and everyone of you infect someone else with your love of hunting, the outdoors, and our way of life. You don't have to convert them, just open their eyes to the facts. We (hunters) will die if we are not recruiting members into our ranks. I will bend over backwards to help someone out if they even show the slightest interest in archery. In the last two years I have equipped, or helped equip 4 traditional archers and 2 that were dead set on getting set up with a compound. I take new hunters out and show them what I know. I hope each and every one of you does the same. We must do this, if we are to change the negative stigma that has been placed upon us by the liberal media. They perceive us as a bunch of drunken, toothless, rednecks that like to torture animals. We have many outside elements working against us. We must get as many people involved as possible so that we have a very powerful voice to change people’s perceptions. I bet if the school boards across the country had more hunters on them we wouldn’t even be discussing this.

[Ben Woodring]

High Scool Teacher type here. They're out of bounds and you don't even need a lawyer. Go to a Baord meeting and vent a little. You'll make the paper and  admin will turn themseves inside out to not look like the idiots they are at that point. It's typical for admin to go beyond the law because they are cowards at heart and wouldn't want to actually protect the rights of kids. The safe school act doesn't even call for a ban on weapons, just the unauthorized type. With school board approval it's legal to have archery etc....