How many of you.....

[woodchucker]

Consider yourselves a good enough shot that you can truely tell the differance between an equipment problem,and a shooting problem.

Here are a few examples.....

You have a dozen arrows,all identical with 125gr. field points,but 1 arrow has a 145gr. point mistakingly put on.....

You have a dozen cedar arrows spined 50-55# except unknowingly 1 shaft actualy spines 60-65#.....

How consistant is your release????? REALLY????? can you honestly tell if it is the arrow.....Or is it YOU?????

I do not bare shaft my arrows.Personaly I think it's useless and a waste of time.(just MY opinion though)Arrows were made to be shot with feathers on them. I count on my fletching to stabilize my arrows and make them fly as straight as I can shoot them. I use 5 1/2" high shield feathers with an 11 degree helical,I never have a problem with my 2 blade broadheads windplaning.My release is at times inconsistant,and I usualy shoot a mixture of mis-matched arrows.However,as "instictive archers" I believe that the "goal" is not nessecarily "tight groups" but being able to consistantly hit our target(say a pie plate) EVERY time at any range,from 3 yards to 30 yards and anywhere in between.

Ron LaClair said "Instinctive shooting is like throwing a ball,or throwing a stone"

Well not every stone weighs the same,and we don't use the same amount of strength to throw every stone.....but some folks are pretty darn good at hitting what they're looking at with a rock!!!!!

I just think some times we make things more difficult than they need to be.....

[Toecutter]

Howdy Chuck, I was playing around with some diff. tips just yesterday and at 15-20 yds I cant tell the difference.  I do bareshaft so spine would be pretty apparent, but I'm happy with my release which just proves I don't know any better.

Enough of this talking stuff...  Are we gonna get to hunt this year or what?  Hope tho see you soon.
Nathan

[Grey Taylor]

I totally agree with you.
When I make arrows I spine and weight them pretty closely, but I'm sure that the balance of people they go to would never know the difference if the standards were much farther apart.
When I see people saying that their arrows shoot left, there is sometimes a little imp in my ear whispering, "aim further right."
Telling the difference between an arrow issue and a shooter issue is not always an easy task.

Guy

[woodchucker]

SOON Nathan!!!!!!!!!!  

[zilla]

I can tell the difference. Especially in having the correct arrow spine.

[woodchucker]

So zilla, (playing the devils advocate here)

EVERY one of your arrows is in the X ring EVERY time?????

Personaly,Sometimes I shoot alittle left.....sometimes alittle right.....little high,little low.....It would take me a LONG time to figure out that one particular arrow was not "just right"

[buckeye_hunter]

At 30yds bareshaft 3 against 3 fletched and you will be able to tell on a nice BIG target.  Even if you are a bad shot, you should be able to tell.  I say this because your inconsistent pattern will continue to be inconsistent, but either to the left or right.  If the spine is good you will continue to be inconsistent right in the middle! Then you can focus on nock point up and down after that.

You may still be a terrible shot,  but at least you will be iinconsistent with well tuned equiptment!!!  

-Charlie

[woodchucker]

OK,Let me clear things up. I'm not talking about a batch of arrows being differant,I'm talking about one individual arrow being differant from the rest. How many of you can pick that one arrow out of the bunch right away?????

(and I'm sure there are some really good shooters who can,I'm just trying to figure out how many shoot good enough to notice the differance RIGHT AWAY.)

[3dmuzzy]

Chuck...I can if I miss a pie plate it has to be the arrow or tunning it could not be me  LOL
......ED  

[mcgroundstalker]

Hi Chuck! Does Snow Dancin' have anything to do with missin' a target?    

... mike ...

[Shawn Leonard]

If an arrow is 20#s over or under spined for my bow I will definitely tell the difference, if it is a diffrent weight say 50 grains or so I could nopt tell the difference. I think a lot of people can tell the difference if it is a spine issue. I know if I change point weight by 50 grains I can tell the difference for sure. To answer your last question I would say Yes I notice a difference right away in a fairly big spine change, not that I shoot that well because i could do it left handed and I am a righty. I often hear people say the native americans did not care about spine and weight and all that but they did, they would shoot a big bunch of arrows and than choose from them the ones that flew and shot best for them, so in a round a bout way they were acheiving the same as modern day archers just doing it less scientifically. I have to disagree with ya, my bows are tuned to shoot a specifically spined arrow and I shoot both wood and carbon and my arrows are tuned to shoot well out of my bows and depending on what is different from arrow to arrow I will be able to tell the difference in flight and the way I shoot. Shawn

[zilla]

Originally posted by woodchucker:
So zilla, (playing the devils advocate here)

EVERY one of your arrows is in the X ring EVERY time?????

Personaly,Sometimes I shoot alittle left.....sometimes alittle right.....little high,little low.....It would take me a LONG time to figure out that one particular arrow was not "just right"

Not even...  But you miss my point.

[zilla]

Originally posted by woodchucker:
OK,Let me clear things up. I'm not talking about a batch of arrows being differant,I'm talking about one individual arrow being differant from the rest. How many of you can pick that one arrow out of the bunch right away?????

(and I'm sure there are some really good shooters who can,I'm just trying to figure out how many shoot good enough to notice the differance RIGHT AWAY.)

Now that we have  a paramter, it depends on How different the arrow is. If I suspect there is one arrow that is flying different, then I put numbers on em using those  small Brady markers I use at work for identifying wires. So #3 goes left all the time and the rest are bulls eyes.  Now consider if you are shooting woods, alum or carbon.

[larry]

I definitely could tell the difference in spine...'course I don't use big honkin' 5.5" feathers either    and I'd like to think that I could tell the difference in 50 grains of weight, but not likely at 20yrds...now 35, that would be a different story. every year at hunting season I start out with about eight arrows with broad heads, and there have been years when I've culled a few of them because they just didn't shoot with the others.

[woodchucker]

OK here's another one.....

I have a bunch of 125 gr. Zwickey Eskimos that I shoot off my wood arrows.....Now I have a bunch of 2018's that I want to hunt with.....I have been shooting them with a 125 gr. field point. I take the Zwickeys and glue in a 10gr. aluminium short adapter for a total BH weight of 135gr. But can you REALLY tell the differance between the 125gr. field point and the Zwickey with the adapter?????

[Toecutter]

Not me my friend... You surpassed my shooting abilities long before you got to a 10 gr. difference. 50gr. yes, 10gr. no!!

[woodchucker]

As I said before,I usualy shoot a bunch of mis-matched arrows.....

That does not mean that they are not carefully made though. For years I have bought my custom arrows from Joe Skipp. Joe would weigh all of the shafts and try to pick 6 or 12 that were all between 10grs.

However,one dozen arrows may weigh between 510-520grs. while another dozen may weigh 540-550grs. Yet they all seem to fly where I shoot them.They may not "group" as well as I would like they're all in the "kill-zone" and that's what matters most.

[draco]

I've picked out bad or different arrows, but not immediately but from several shots. That may be why you are not getting as tight of groups as you would like, as your arrows are mismatched.
Weight doesn't seem to effect things too much at the relative short ranges I shoot but different spine will show up immediately.
If your arrows are as close as you can get them then you will know it's you as you have taken any doubts from the arrows.

[Bonebuster]

I shoot carbon arrows now, but used wood for a long time.

I remember that there could be large differences in weight between the wood arrows, and I could not tell the difference at hunting ranges.(15-20 yds). Also, as long as the wood arrows were not close to being underspined, broadhead weight differences didn`t matter either. The wood arrows always seemed to fly where I wanted.

I have found carbon arrows to be much more fussy
about broadhead weight, and differences in total arrow weight become easier for me to see. In addition, I have found carbon to be much less forgiving of form errors.

[Hattrick]

heres one i have hunting buddy that does not worry with tuning--he shoots a 65# bow 720gr arrow with ww head an i cant remember the last time when he had a pass  through  on a deer, not shoulders i mean broad side good rib lung an heart shots. i`m shooting 55# bow 500gr arrow that is tuned an always have a exit hole. you tell me??? i think his arrow is so out of tune it robbing his energy, with that weight an poundage it should be sticking in the ground on any shot short of shoulder. i not just talking about a couple deer either i would say probably about 20 or so in last couple yrs.so  
you do what you want, but i`ll tune mind the best i can cuz i like the results an my groups are tighter . This week i`m talking him in to bare shafting one of the arrow`s he been shooting-that will tell the tail we hope