Pondering Penetration ??????

[bowdog1]

Any opinions on performance difference of two 600 grain arrows; one 200 gr arrow w/400 grain head vs one 400 grain arrow w/200 grain head. All else equal. I know this is extreme but trying to decide where weight is most important

[tradtusker]

all else equal and the important fact of making very sure its tuned correctly the the arrow with the heavier head weight would penetrate more.

weight is defiantly better up front.

[Don Stokes]

I know lots of people will disagree, but I don't think it matters, AS LONG AS THE ARROW IS FLYING PERFECTLY!

[b.glass]

A perfectly flying arrow I believe is very important. The arrow still should have that up front weight for best penatration.

[vermonster13]

Do some reading here and then decide what works best for you.

 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=24

[Don Stokes]

As long as your heads are heavier than your nock and feathers, you have weight forward. That's all it takes to stabilize an arrow. I guess I'm kind of traditional in my thinking...

[Biggie Hoffman]

I'm with Don. 600 gr. is 600 gr. If the arrow is tuned properly, the entire weight is directed to the tip. It can't possibly matter if it's weighted fore or aft.

[James Wrenn]

I guess it depends on what you read or who you listen to.    I don't care as long as it tunes best how an arrow comes out.They all work.

[katman]

My thought at this time is more foc in a tuned arrow will penetrate better all else being equal, especially after reading the 2007 update from Dr. Ashby on the 54# bow. Makes sense to me if the arrow is statically stiffer to handle the higher foc it would flex less on impact and recover quicker thus penetrate better, more force pushing forward less side to side. But do not sacrifice a well tuned arrow for extreme foc.

[Biggie Hoffman]

BUT, once the weighted front is past the point of impact, the lack of even weight distribution thru-out the entire length would allow the rest of the shaft to flex more easily.
Man this one is making my brain tired.....

[Daddy Bear]

Having too much weight towards the rear is not ballistically sound as this can induce yaw. The tail end will then attempt to pass the front end when meeting resistance.

[katman]

The arrow is STIFFER (statically but equal dynamically in a tuned arrow) in a EFOC vs normal FOC arrow so it will flex less, plus since the majority of mass is thru already the lighter end follows more easily.

Got to love those legs in your avatar biggie.

[Glenn Newell]

It is better to have most of the weight up front as the arrow will buckle lees on impact. I wish I had of got onto heavier FOC when I first started bowhunting. I was always told the 9-10% foc was perfect but since I have gone to 25-30% penetration has gone way up. It's like shooting a heavier bow without the extra effort...Glenn...

[George D. Stout]

Are you suggesting that coconuts migrate?

[amar911]

Coconuts migrate from the tree to the ground when they are ripe enough. But the real question is whether they penetrate the dirt better if the heavier end hits first!    

Allan

[Don Stokes]

Only with the help of swallows, George.

[bm22]

Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
I'm with Don. 600 gr. is 600 gr. If the arrow is tuned properly, the entire weight is directed to the tip. It can't possibly matter if it's weighted fore or aft.

i think i understand what biggie is trying to say. that is if the arrow stays perfectly straight all 600 grains of arrow goes in the same direction and should matter where it is distributed.

where i think he is wrong is that no matter if you have a perfectly tuned arrow when it strikes something especially something solid like bone the wood and carbon flexes and the less weight you have in the back to less weight that is wasted trying to flex, and the more weight that is still "moving forward", also the more weight in the back the easier it is to make the arrow flex. just take and arrow and swing it around the more weight on the tip the more the arrow bends.

i take a really stiff arrow and cut is short then load the tip up until the arrow will spine correctly. the arrow itself is still really stiff and really hard to bends so when i hit something hard the arrow is less likely to flex or bend and should penetrate better than a normal arrow with a light tip.
jmo take it for what its worth.

[George D. Stout]

Well......Maybe!      

I try so hard not to let facts interfere with what I already am comfortable with.    

I am totally comfortable in my little corner of the world that says, "the best indicator of future performance, is past performance."   Now I know some of you have worked hard to convince many of us, that there is always a better way, and no doubt there may be.  However, I consider bullheadedness a gift and treasure it immensely.

I am, however, leaning toward a little more weight on the front end; unfortunately, most of that is on me and not my arrows.  But I digress.
I do have a little more arrow front of center this year, more or less to see if it works any better than what I have used in the past.  I probably won't know that though, since I can only shoot deer with one arrow at a time, and won't know whether the other would have done the same thing.

So....you see all of this talk is still very subjective, since you didn't shoot that deer with two arrows of different fronts of center, so you can only say it did well or it did not do well.  There is no comparison unless it is in another animal, and then you still don't know because you may not have done any better on it with a different FOC.  

Now for the cerebral crowd, you already know that any really scientific project has more than one model and understand; to the rest of you...like me...ignorance can be bliss.

Enjoy your hunting season, whatever your front-of-center may be, and don't worry too much about the ratios/X-squared/divided by the mass of a Big Mac.  Life is too short by golly.

[CHAD]

I think that if both arrows are tuned to the bow and flying true i would pick the 400gr. up front.I look at it this way. Say you have a .500 carbon shaft with the 200gr. up front and maybe a .340 carbon shaft with 400gr. up front to fly good out of your recurve or longbow. I would think the stiffer shaft would flex less on impact and aid in penetration.Chad

[electric blues]

I havnt done a real experiment, because the two broadheads I used were different in size and weight. BUT, I made some woodies, and everything else the same except the broadheads, the heavier ones FAR outpenetrated the lighter ones. They were around 280-300 grains versus 130 grains, but I still think it has some validity.

Imagine you are just shooting a broadhead, and the arrow shaft and fletching is there to help the broadhead get to the target straight. All that matters is that the broadhead gets through, not the shaft.