Fast Flight string question.

[Apex Predator]

Is there a FF string material that is the same size as B-50 dacron?  I would like to do some experimenting, but don't like the pencil lead diameter strings that require built up serving or string loops.

[Orion]

D-97 is pretty close.  It's just a tad thinner, but not much.  I generally make 14-strand strings for my bows and pad with 4 strands of dacron in the loops.  Probably wouldn't need the padding in most cases, but it's not hard to do and it's a little easier on the tips.

[JRY309]

I agree D97 is pretty close,I get a close nock fit with 12 strands D97 with .024 Halo when compared to 14 strands B50 with .018 No. 62 serving.They are very close to the same size.I think padding the loops helps make a quieter string.

[Holm-Made]

18 strands of fast flight plus is about the same diameter as 14 strands of B50.  Much more durable as well.  Chad

[Apex Predator]

Where do you guys buy your FF string in 1/4# spools?  Three rivers only has a few color choices of FF Plus.

[Orion]

I buy my D-97 from Lamont at The Footed Shaft.

[Chris Wilson]

Originally posted by Apex Predator:
Where do you guys buy your FF string in 1/4# spools?  Three rivers only has a few color choices of FF Plus.

Lancaster archery supply.  They carry the 1/4# spool in seven different colors.

[Jeremy]

I buy my string materials directly from Brownell... if they don't have the color I want in the size I want they go out to the floor and spool it for me.  I drive by them every day I pick up the baby from daycare.

B50 has a diameter to .018
TSPlus is .014
UltraCam is .014
D75 is .015
D75thin is .011
FFPlus is .015

I normally make my dacron strings with 12 strands (14 in the loops).  My TSplus strings are normally made with 14 stands (18 in the loops) and I use a slightly thicker serving material.

BCY doesn't give the diameters of their string materials, but 12 strands of D97 is the same diameter as 14 strands of TSPlus.  I'm guessing it's .016

[Jeremy]

In my experience FF and FF+ are the "harshest" of the low-stretch materials.  There are better options IMO.

[O.L. Adcock]

We hear a lot about strings, the pros and cons. For the most part it appears folks just do what everyone else is doing and create "theories" for why.

Once upon a time when few choices were available making a string that wouldn't break was the priority. From what I can find, a 10:1 ratio was considered adaquate. So for a 50# bow 500# test was plenty.

There's a lot of again "theories" how stretch effects performance and or has the potential to damage bows. If we tried to tow a bus with a 1/4" poly rope, it's going to have a given pound test and it's going to stretch xx amount under a given load. Now try to tow it with 1" poly rope..Same material..Higher pound test, less stretch...Right..

Now enter all our opinions on bow strings, what we've read, what we've heard, what we have seen with our own eyes....No one has ever done a "fair" test compareing strings of equal strength. We hear the numbers of 5-7 fps between FF and Dacron...But that is between strings of vastly different strengths, just like the poly rope example above. How can one draw conclusions from that? Aren't the results obvious?

The point I'm getting at is the strings we use are typically WAY over built for no other reason then opinions with no factual basis and misleading tests conducted my folks with pre-test agendas.

Examples above with 12 strand Dacron has a 600# breaking strength. Using the 10:1 ratio that is plenty for a 60# bow. The 12 strand DF-97...1800#! Is there any wonder there is less stretch, again going back to the poly rope. Is there any wonder it might be a bit hard on bows?

String manufactures love it, we use twice to 3 times more material then needed.

Pushing the limits.....I have shot a 55# bow at 1.5 grains/pound multiple times with a 4 strand DF-97 string with no string failures nor bow failures. Would I recommend that?? No...Not at all. But it shows how far away from the cliff we are. A 50# bow needs no more then 8 strands of 97, 40# 6, and 30# 4...That 5-7 fps number we hear compareing string differences, becomes 10-15 real quick. That means shooting 12gr/lb the same speed as 10 before. Our common wisdom/culture is buy that Corvette, pinch off the exaust pipes, put a governer on it, and a trailer hitch while we're at it.

Throw out all the arguements against doing this and you'll find NONE of the arguments are string related, such as noise, serving thickness, stability, ect.....O.L.

[hera]

Thank you O.L. Adcock .

[LBR]

Depending on what type nock you are using, you can use 12 strands of Dynaflight '97 and up to .025 serving (#62 XS) and it will fit Bohnning Classic/Mercury nocks just fine (that's the larger throated nocks I know of).  Or, you can use a smaller size serving and/or less strands and build up the nock point with dental floss treated with super glue (ala Rod Jenkins).

We don't "need" 12-14 strands, but going small can make getting a proper nock fit a pain, and the smaller the string the more chance you have of the serving slipping--especially with the larger size servings.  I don't like to use less than 10 strands myself--this is on my selfbows.  I use 14 (Dyna) on my longbow, simply because I like it--very quiet, I don't have to do anything special to get a proper nock fit, and I don't need any extra performance from it.  I use 10 strands on the selfbows because I want to get a little extra from them.

You can buy Dynaflight direct from BCY (www.bcyfibers.com), or from a dealer.

Chad

[O.L. Adcock]

Chad, OK, use more strands cause it's easier and less effort. Serving slipping would be a problem but I've never seen the "string" cause that. I've had servings slip on fat strings where "I" screwed up!   ...O.L.

[LBR]

Try serving a 6-8 strand Dynaflight '97 or 8125 with .024 Halo or .025 #62 and see if it holds very long....or just ask Rod.    

Not to say I haven't screwed up before (and if I live very long, I will again), but after thousands of strings even a knucklehead like me figures out a few things.

I make a lot of very small diameter strings for folks, I just don't have a need for one on my longbow--I like it very much the way it's set up, and don't see where a faster pass-through will benefit anything--kinda' like buying a Corvette when I'll never drive faster than 55 mph. or a F-350 to pull a lawnmower trailer--just don't see the need for it.

If (when) I go to a lighter draw weight, I figure I'll set it up with a smaller diameter/lighter string, but for now I won't try to fix what ain't broke.  Besides, putting a smaller/faster string on this bow would mean I'd have to start all over with arrows, I'd have to adjust my shooting, etc.  I rather shoot and hunt than tinker.  I'm nowhere near being in the league with Rod, but I do ok.

Chad

[Tom Anderson]

Is it feasible to "double up" on the serving in order to get a proper nock fit and make it big enough so that it won't dig into our fingers?

[O.L. Adcock]

"Besides, putting a smaller/faster string on this bow would mean I'd have to start all over with arrows,".

..Yep, just like having a new bow cause it is! A much more efficient bow.

With heavier then needed strings, you ARE driving that Corvette and towing a trailer with it. The problem with our anologies is our bows are full throttle every shot.

Which is going to be harder on the bow? Take the bus we're going to tow, tie that 50' of 1/4" poly rope to the bumper of your truck, back up to the bus and floor it! Somethings going to happen when that 50' runs out. Do it again with the 1" rope...Which is most likely to jerk your bumper off?!     So we put strings 3 or 4 times stronger then needed on our bows and wonder why it's hard on them?....O.L.

[LBR]

Tom, you can do that (might or might not fit properly), but you are adding a lot of weight in a critical point--negates a big portion of what you gained by going with fewer strands to begin.

O.L., I agree it would be like shooting a different bow--but that's the point--I don't want a different bow.  I don't want or need a Corvette to drive down a country road.

Have you seen where an overbuilt string caused problems?  I've had this particular bow for a dozen years or so, and for all but one summer I've shot a 14 strand Dyna '97 string on it.  That particular summer I experimented with smaller/lighter strings, and really didn't care for them on this bow.  I'm pulling [email protected]", and this is my "everything" bow--I shoot tournaments with it, hunt with it, play with it, and practice the most with it--so far, I can't see where the string has had any ill effects.

If I ever have to go with a draw weight where I think I need every ounce of performance I can get, I'll go with a smaller string--but so far, this one works very well--it's worked on numerous critters, several big tournaments, and lots of smaller ones.  I may get a wild hair one day and experiment again, but for now I'm not willing to try and fix what's not broken.

Chad

[Apex Predator]

Well I just ordered some D97.  I let you know how it shoots on my longbows.

[zilla]

Somewhere I got the idea that 5:1 was the safety factor. That in mind I built some 8 strand  FF strings and shot them.. The biggest downside is that the strings were so thin they hurt my fingers.  Not mention having to build up the nock area.. I found that the smallest string I can make and shoot comfortably is 12 strands.. The other downside I noticed is that the thinner strings creep more than the heavier ones.  My personal conclusion is that the heavier strings creep less. These days The smallest string I will make for myself is 14 strands..

[LBR]

That is a down-side of small strings, especially on heavier draw weights--you get more stretch/creep.  Lack of stretch/creep is one of the primary reasons I like the FF type materials to begin with.

Chad