A question for heavy poundage shooters (70# and up)

[Matabele]

Hi all,

Im going up in draw weight…just cause I think I can handle it and I like the idea of flatter trajectory, better penetration etc.

My question is, where is the point of diminishing returns…or is there even one? I mean is there a significant difference between a 70#, 75# and 80# bow assuming the same gr/lb, or do the gains start becoming less and less?

I realize there are a lot of variables, like bow design etc but I was hoping for some thoughts and generalizations.

Thanks!

[Orion]

I think the diminishing returns start at about 65#.

[Hardhed]

I read somewhere that a 57lb bow is the top of the curve in terms of marginal gain per pound of weight pulled.  A lot of variables of bow efficency, etc, though-

[vermonster13]

Orion is right on with what I've been told.

[52 bow]

I'v a 65,67,69 longbows and I can definately tell the differce- all the same except for the woods.The 69# out penetrates them all in my deer target.

[Apex Predator]

Orion hit it on the head, as far as I understand it.

[BigArcher]

I shoot selfbows.  So I go higher in draw weight to compensate for the lack of fibreglass.
I feel that the 90+ # bow definately shoots harder than the little ones (<65#s) I have been shooting heavy bows so long that the light ones seem, well, Light.
I have good accuracy, good penetration and I like the feel.
The bow design,that you mentioned, is key though.  Modern fibreglass bows are probably all pretty efficient. All wood bows vary by maker, wood, design and even climate.
So if staying with a fiberglass bow I think 65 to 75 is a good range.  
All wood, then 75 to 95 and really try them out using a Chronograph and similar arrows.

BigArcher

[barebow62]

My heavy recurves are...bw sb 80#.silvertip 77#.brack quest 72#.blacktail elite 72#.bill stewart 73#.super diablo 70#bw ma11 72#..all at 28".....honestly not a lot of difference to draw and trajectory dead flat to 50 yards (2315 xx 75s)...what is noticeable to me though is that when i drop to 65# and less they are really easy to draw...with the higher poundage i dont feel comfortable shooting carbons...just my thoughts...regards jon

[barebow62]

blacktail elite is 69#

[Grant Young]

I shoot bows from 66 thru 74 lbs. and I try to shoot the same arrows from each. So far this season I've killed one deer with a 72# recurve and the results were really what I'd expect with any of my bows from the lowest thru highest poundage. I thin my most efficient bow effort/ result wise, is my 68# takedown. I would probably agree with Orion that there is a far greater noticeable difference between a 55# bow and a 65 # model than I've seen between 65# and 75# bows.Its also correct in my experience that each bow is unique so one size really doesn't fit all. None of this is as important as hitting what I'm shooting at.               Grant

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

Mark, I built up to the heavy bows just by shooting progressively heavier bows. One important thing, I think, is to also do some shooting with your non-dominant side; or at least draw-and-hold exercises with it. It's important to strengthen the shoulders on both sides.

I also found it very difficult to make more than a 10 pound draw-weight jump at a time. Go methodically. Learn to truly handle the bow at each weight level as you go up in weight. But always keep in mind that you can never learn to truly handle a 90 pound bow by shooting an 85# bow; no matter how much you shoot it.

As you start moving up, at each practice session shoot the heavy bow you've now mastered then, towards the end of your practice session shoot the heavier bow you're trying to work up to until the muscles get tired, then go back and shoot the lighter bow a bit more (and you'll be amazed how light it's draw now feels). Finish off each session by drawing the heavier bow and holding at full draw as long as you can and then try to get an aimed (relatively close range) shot off with it. Repeat that heavy-bow draw/hold/shoot sequence several times, up until it's really hard to draw the bow again. I eventually worked up to being able to hold the 120# bow at full draw for a times 30 seconds and then be able to take a well-aimed shot at virtually any range (within my accuracy level).

Once you're heavier bow fees easy for your to use with accuracy and control it is time to make it your 'light bow' and move up to a new 'heavy bow'.

That system worked for me, and it was surprising to me how rapidly I was able to go from being comfortable and accurate with 70# to being comfortable and accurate with 120# of draw weight - about six months.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow

[Justin Falon]

I mirror Ed Ashby!  Hard to learn to shoot a 90# bow by only going to a 70# bow.  Sure you  can hit with the heavier bow but not very often.  I started out shooting my  first traditional bow that was 70# and then went to 74# and then to 85# and then on to a 94# Hill that is my primary bow today.  

I am not a long range shooter and must admit no matter what weight bow I shoot 20 yards is pretty much my max.

justin

[Lost Arra]

I had to take 4 advil just reading this thread    

[JRY309]

I think Gary Sentman talked about in an old video he felt 58# to 63# was a point after that when you would start to see diminshing returns.My heaviest bow is my Bamboo Longhunter 83# and a 75# HH,I did have a 95# Bighorn longbow.I prefer to shoot 60-68# longbows.I like to shoot heavy arrows from my heavier bows,so they don't really shoot flatter then my lighter bows but do penetrate deeper.

[Rick McGowan]

There is no such thing as a general rule for "diminishing returns", I have heard for years many times people asking for the point of "dimishing returns" for WHAT? If you are talking about whitetail deer, then yes obviously, if you are shooting completely through the biggest deer every time, then to go heavier would be the point of dimishing returns, say for the purpose of this discussion that point is 60#'s, now you decide to hunt buffalo, or hippo or elephant, 60#'s is no where near the point of diminishing returns now is it? When you get to hunting elephant and shoot all the way through every one, then you have hit the point of diminishing returns again. As far as the bow and arrows go, there is no point of diminishing returns, you will get to a point however when coming up with good arrows for a particular bow, may be so much trouble, that it becomes a point of diminishing returns.

[vermonster13]

The diminishing returns are that you need to make the limb heavier to get the weight and thus start to slow down the bow overall. Shoot an 80# bow at 10gpp and a 60 at 10gpp and see what the chrono tells you. I am talking efficiency a far as diminishing returns. You'll still get more momentum out of the 90 over the 60 just not the same increase you'd get from a 60 0ver a 40.

[Str8Shooter]

I've owned several bows up to around 80# in the past. Some of them have performed very well and some have been dissapointing. For example, I've owned a couple of bows from the same maker that were about 15 lbs different (one 58#, one 73#). With the same string and arrows they were only about 8 fps different. So, in that case, the gains in performance vs. draw weight weren't very good.

I agree that when evaluating heavy bows a chrono is needed. The design of a bow can make a big difference in the overall performance. Just because a bow is heavy doesn't mean it will yield more energy than a lighter bow.

[Matabele]

Thanks for the replies, there's a lot of great advice been given!

Im going to try work up to 70# and then see what happens from there.

Dr Ashby...120#'s, now thats heavy weight! I'd imagine you had quite a time finding arrows for that bow? Out of curiosity what bow are you using most now, and what are the specs, if you dont mind me asking?

Thanks again!

[Rick McGowan]

The advantage of a heavier bow is not to shoot an arrow of the same weight faster, its to shoot a heavier arrow at the same speed.

[O.L. Adcock]

I'm with Rick, what are "diminshing returns"? Stiffness of a limb increases by the cube of it's thickness so the limbs get "lighter" per pound of draw weight as the draw weight goes up. A 100 pound bow is way less then twice as thick as a 50# of the same design.

Add to that string mass becomes less percentage wise per pound also. So...Heavier bows "should" be more efficent.

What does happen if not designed into the bow is riser flex which kills energy storage. This is measurable on 40# bows with machined risers so you can imagine it's impact on heavy bows with wood risers. But all else being equal a 40# bow at whatever gpp will shoot the same speed as an 80 with the same gpp....O.L.