New archer - very confused - 32" draw/arrow length help

[UCBerzerkeley]

edit to mods: if this should be in another forum, please move it. Otherwise....

Hi all,

So perhaps I am going about this wrong, but here goes. I literally came upon archery a few weeks ago. I am a college student and an avid fly fisherman who has always wanted to hunt.

I went straight to traditional and picked up a Ben Pearson Javelina, 66" 40@28. Apparently I draw 32", so accounting for some stack, I am shooting around 56# + (is heavy)

I am 6'5". My draw, using wingspan / 2.5, is 31". I bought 32" arrows. Looks like they are too short.

Both of these use same anchor: index in mouth, thumb knuckle behind jaw. Here is my draw so that the field point does NOT cross onto the shelf (ie broadhead would not hit riser)

       

Here is a more comfortable posture (straighter bow arm, it feels like my back and bone structure are take the weight). Point crosses riser, or is within 1cm. I would, if nothing else, prefer some leeway while I learn.

       

(thanks to Terry for the clock pictures)


Am I measuring wrong? Do I get longer arrows? Where? The easton gamegetters i bought were 32" max. Sigh. Anyone have some positive notes? Are there at least some benefits to a longer draw, besides stacking bows and arrows that are too short?

Thanks in advance. Mostly I am just confused and frustrated. It is hard being new.

[John3]

I've never had that problem...LOL I'm sure someone on the gang will have a good answer. I do know this.. If you drew a heavier poundage bow your draw will be shorter. Your shoulders will be more compressed with a heavier bow.

My draw is about 2" shorter with a heavy bow.

Good shooting.

[UCBerzerkeley]

The bow is already heavy JDS3, heavy for me at least at that draw. When I reach my full draw, the limbs are no longer bending backwards, they are bending down (or simply not bending, the string seems to magically go backwards without the limbs moving?)

[McDave]

You mentioned that you shoot with a straight bow arm.  I find that I am more accurate when my bow arm is slightly bent.  Not everyone would agree that your bow arm should be bent when shooting a recurve, but quite a few people would.  Try it both ways, and see what you think.  If you're more accurate shooting with a slightly bent bow arm, then you'll reduce your draw length a little.  Another thing would be taking a deep hook, which seems to improve a lot of peoples' shooting, and will also reduce your draw length by a little bit.

[Paul Mattson]

A side view picture will tell alot more than the above that you posted.  Your elbow and shoulder look some what high in the pic.  if this is happening you are over drawing.  To answer your arrow question there are aluminum arrows that are 34".

[UCBerzerkeley]

Thanks McDave, I will look into those. Badger - I will get a side pic in a minute comparing both. This midterm examinations thing is a real hamper on forum surfing (lol typed serfing...reading about medieval serfs)

[legends1]

I have the same draw as you. I have had issues with finding arrows that are uncut and still to short just as you.Im a bowyer so I can make a bow at a wt/lt that works for me.Arrows now thats another thing.I shoot the Arrow Dynamics Tradition.I have to order them custom and they are 32 5/8.With this I have no problem.The plus side is that you can shoot a heavy arrow without adding weight to the arrow.My arrow is 612grns.
So dont think of it as a bad  thing,but a blessing!
Mike

[UCBerzerkeley]

Two side shots. First photo matches first photo above(short draw), second photo matches second photo above (long draw). Maybe I don't need to switch arrows? Appears I got some room in the first, though alignment above is off

 

 

[Dave521]

Easton makes arrows to fit up to a 33" draw they might be able to set you up with something. from what I can see in the second picture you are severely over drawing your bow.I had the same problem when I started shotting recurves, I had bought oen that was to strong on the pull and a bit short on the draw# the bow shop I went through changed the string out for one about an inch longer than the one that was on it and that helped me with the draw length as well as the pull. it's something you could try, but check with eastonarchery they should be able to help with the arrow length.
 http://www.eastonarchery.com

Dave

[ccampbell2546]

I think the first (short) draw looks more natural and more comfortable.  It's really up to you though.  The second picture looks like you are really extending or stretching, but again it's all about feel.  I shoot with my elbow slightly bent.

[Soilarch]

Try bending the bow are just a little.  When I first started out I thought that "locking" the elbow was the only thing that made sense.  I had to look at a LOT of pictures before I believed...but a little bend in that elbow is a very very good thing.  Some very good shots still have more bend than I could imagine is accurate...but it's a highly personal thing I suppose.


It felt awkward at first.  But my shooting improved (and in your case, solves the problem) and now it feels much BETTER than a straight arm.

Being at your max DW will back this an uphill battle but give it a try. Imagine you had and artificial elbow installed by a drunk doctor who left several inches of the pin, or axle, sticking out both sides of you skin. (Graphic, I know, bear with me.)  When you draw try to rotate that pin.  I'm left handed so my bow arm elbow can rotate from about 2:00 to 12:30 position without hurting or making my shoulders follow my elbow. One of the things on my "checklist" during practice is to make sure I'm keeping my elbow at 12:30

When that elbow is at 12:30 (for LH shooters) I find I can put just enough bend in the arm that it isn't "locked" out...and my shooting improves.


^^^I'm no coach, and no expert, but that's what I do and it's worth a try.

Good Luck

[UCBerzerkeley]

Interesting points everyone - thanks for all the input, I am very optimistic. I guess what I have gotten hung up on - that really steered me towards the longer draw (and perhaps straight elbow, I'll definitely try bending it) is that I could get all my "lines" to match up from overhead. If the top picture is not overdrawn, then I can definitely stick with these arrows - there is obviously enough room for a broadhead there!

Dave - what indicates I am overdrawn? I don't doubt it, it definitely feels like I hit a wall (though I can steady myself at that wall). If what you are saying is correct, there appears to be no reason for me to get new arrows.

For campbell and soil - with a bent elbow, do you find it difficult to shift weight onto your back and shoulders and bones? isn't that the whole point of a straight arm? correct me if i am mistaken

last question - if i am overdrawn in the 2nd picture but the lines up top match, how do I straighten the lines with the shorter draw? bend my elbow? (talking about terry's clock here)

[Biggie Hoffman]

I also have a 32" draw. The thing that catches my eye is your straight up stance. Like you've been watching Olymic archery  :-)
If you'll bend at the waist, and cant your bow a little, it will shorten you up an inch or so and your arrows should be fine.

You can also open up your stance a little. Move your left foot back a few inches. This will shorten you up a little too.

Look at some of the videos posted under shooting forums. You'll see a natural bend and cant in most shooters.

A long draw is a curse when trying to find arrows but man you get all the power stroke out of every bow you shoot!

[Night Wing]

Looking at the photos of your 66" bow; it looks like it has short limbs, but a long riser and at your height, the limbs look like they're too short for you. The bow really has the looks of a target bow since the riser on your bow looks like it's either 21" or 23". If you're more comfortable with the long draw length, then stick with it. Let me give you some ideas since I also shoot a 66" recurve, but I'm only 5'9" tall. I've got real long arms for my height. My recurve is a Blacktail Elite TD bow. It's 66" long, 42#@30" draw length. The riser is 19" in length. It's strung with a Dyna 97 string instead of a dacron or flemish string. This means I need a stiffer arrow since there is less stretch in the Dyna string than in a Dacron string. I prefer to shoot a 150 grain Wensel Woodsman broadhead for my point. I also prefer a more comfortable draw like in your second photo, but I anchor in the corner of my mouth and I shoot with a tab, not a glove. I cant my bow to the one o'clock position. My favorite arrow was an Easton aluminum 2115 measured and cut, from the bottom of the nock valley, to 31" in length. The arrows were all fletched with three, 5" parabolic feathers with an eleven degree twist. All was good until this year when Easton discontinued my favorite 2115 shaft. So, instead of going on E-bay and finding some 2115's, I decided to go longer in length since the Dyna string allows me to where Dacron would give me problems. I noticed Easton still makes a 2215 shaft size. Armed with that knowledge, I went to my local Gander Mountain store, since GM allows me to buy one arrow or shaft at a time and picked up one 2213, one 2215 and one 2117 shafts. They are all cut to 32" long and fletched like my old 31" arrows. This afternoon, I'm going to an archery pro shop where I live and I'm hoping one or all three of these arrows fly like darts. I'm really hoping the 2215 is the one that performs the best since it weighs 550 grains which is a heavy arrow for a 42# bow and the grain per pound comes out to 13. The 2213 weighs close to 525 grains and the 2117 weighs 585 grains. All these arrows were uncut 34" shafts when I bought them so if you go with aluminum shafting, in the higher draw weights, you will be able to get at least 33" or 34" shafting to accommodate your more comfortable draw length.

[Bob L.]

I have the same dilema and have to shoot 34" shafts for the point to clear my bowhand or prevent cutting myself with a broadhead. I also shoot a ben pearson 40#@28 and the best bare shaft tuning was with a 400 spine (2117) arrow full length with a 250 grain point, also obtained 20% foc with that setup. I envy you cause I have been looking for a 66" Ben Pearson, let me know if ever want to sell it. Good luck and enjoy this fabulous sport!

[Jeremy]

Your overhead pics show your stance is, uh, beyond closed.  Your feet need to be square to the target, or as Biggie recommended, your rear foot needs to be ahead of your front foot.  Your pics show the opposite.  That screws with the alignment of everything and leads to overdrawing.

 

Stand square to your taret and see where you are with your draw length.

[s_mcflurry]

Originally posted by Dave521:
from what I can see in the second picture you are severely over drawing your bow.

I'm an amateur shooter at best and don't have a discerning eye.  Other than the bow hand and the arrows tips both pictures look very similar to me.  What are the indications that he's over drawing?  Please show me the way!   :confused:

[Dr. Ed Ashby]

I'm with McDave and Biggie on this one. Though my draw is much shorter (27"), I find I shoot much more accurately with a slightly bend bow arm, a more open stance and a 'relaxed' (less erect) style. I also think that type of shooting form is a much more 'adaptable' posture for the huge variety of shots taken one often has to take under hunting conditions.

Ed
TGMM Family of the Bow
 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=93;t=000366

[McDave]

One small point that is slightly off the subject, but in your second picture your bow fingers are extended.  It is not a good idea to do that unless you're using a bow sling, because when you shoot the bow, you will reflexively clinch your fingers around the handle of the bow to keep from dropping it.  Except that you will anticipate the shot, and clinch them just in time to ruin your shot.  Better to hold the bow lightly with your fingers wrapped around the handle, as in the first picture, so there is no change in your grip pressure when you release.  Or just hold the bow with your forefinger and thumb wrapped around the handle, and let the other fingers drift off to the side.

[UCBerzerkeley]

Good points everyone. I have a serious check list to work with before I make any changes. I will try to take some pictures from the side today and front today with these alterations:

Open stance
Canter at waste
Bend forearm
close grip (both to avoid broadhead and hold bow)

HOPEfully these things will alleviate the arrow length issue, perhaps I don't even have one! I still don't know about clearing a broadhead and my fingers though. Other than the laundry list of problems, I am glad my form is not a train wreck. Wait will I get a video ... laugh