Fair Chase Ethics Question

[Brad_Gentry]

This is a tough question, and there have been a lot of thought provoking opinions so far.

Hunting ethics is more of a personal thing, based on eachs own experiences and moral compass, and doesn't necessarily equate with what's legal and what's not. 2500 acres is a pretty good size chunk of land, but there are still alot of variables to be considered.

How long has the property been fenced in, and is it actually a "game proof" fence. What's the layout of the base and how much ground is actually open for hunting? Where are you hunting in respect to the fence? Is your closeness to the fence, or it's relationship to some terrain feature [or whatnot] what's governing the animals movement?

These kinds of things, and probably some more I'm not thinking of, could have an effect on whether one thinks it's fair chase or not.

I agree with Biggie on the population control thing. If they're that overpopulated there's other people to deal with it (especially on a Guard base!). I'm a hunter, not an exterminator.

For me, I'd have to pass.

[Flesner]

I'd bet a people proof fence is not a game proof fence.
Deer can go through, over and under things we could not have a prayer getting through.
Walk the fence if you can. I'll bet you find they aren't contained.

Then go hunting with a peacful mind.  

[Ray Hammond]

Brad@work,

You(not you personally but speaking of bowhunters in a general sense) couldnt exterminate 5 deer in 50 acres in a deer season behind a high fence...if they were trying to exterminate deer they could ONLY use firearms and bait at night.

Otherwise, it just isn't going to happen.

I'll also bet its not a game proof fence if the property has terrain changes. I've seen deer belly crawl through a 3 foot high drain pipe, then walk to a chain link fence in a drainage ditch to get under the wire, coming from a National Park into a subdivision in the evening to eat pansies.

Things often aren't as black and white as we would like them to be.

We as hunters complained to game departments that we needed more deer and more opportunity. Now we have that- and non hunters have cars damaged and lives at risk in certain situations because deer are so successful at reproducing.

We as hunters better find it within ourselves to be a part of the solution to some of these problems before they take the control OUT of our hands and put it in the hands of sharpshooters and contraceptive makers.

Additionally, some folks ONLY have these limited opportunities to hunt because of financial concerns, etc. Better they take advantage of that than sit at home and watch TV I say.

I say do what you feel is right for you. BUT DON'T TRY TO ENTER A BUCK IN THE RECORD BOOK IN MY OPINION, ALSO

[Leland]

Enjoy it, don't pass up a chance to hunt a new place.If you don't like it ,don't go back.Besides when did "fence" become a four letter word?
  Leland

[ron w]

Sounds like deer management to me, I WOULD GIVE IT A TRY , if you feel the fence is a problem for you, don't go back!!!

[Mike Bolin]

I drew a hunt in the Newport Army Ammunitions Depot (west/central IN) several years ago. I can't remember the exact acreage (less than 500 acres I think) or the number of deer that were supposed to be inside the fence, but they were wanting the herd thinned down considerably. Weekend after Thanksgiving, 25 bowhunters- 2 deer killed and 11 deer sighted. Plenty of sign, but they must have known the hiding spots! LOL! The guards there said they have seen deer crawl under the fence all the time and watched them "appear" outside the fence in the crop fields near drainage culverts. I'd say to give it a try. Good luck and let us know how it goes. Mike

[Snakeeater]

The P&Y Club rules of fair chase state that you shouldn't take an animal "While inside escape-proof fenced enclosures."

The way I interpret that point in the rules of fair chase is that the fence cannot take away the animals ability to escape from the hunter. As long as the animal can hide or get away from you I wouldn't worry about the fence. Just hunt someplace that is not near the fence.

[GingivitisKahn]

Hunt it.  Let's keep our guardsmen and their vehicles safe from marauding deer.  :-)

[pointy sticks]

The deer can out smell you out hear you and out run you. Thats fair chase to me 2500 acres is a pretty big area.

[Brad_Gentry]

You(not you personally but speaking of bowhunters in a general sense) couldnt exterminate 5 deer in 50 acres in a deer season behind a high fence...if they were trying to exterminate deer they could ONLY use firearms and bait at night.
 

Ray,
I agree with you here. My point was, if you don't think hunting behind a fence is quite kosher, don't justify it by saying it's for, "population control", because as you said, "it just isn't going to happen".

Also, for the record I didn't say Bill shouldn't go, just said I don't think I would. He was asking for opinions, wasn't he...

[DesertDude]

I belive I'm the one who said  "Population Control" I was in no way justifing it. I'm not looking for acceptance.  Just stating what needed to be done on the ranch...

[Bill Tell]

Thank you everyone for your opinions and insight.  I have decieded that I am going to go down there and hunt it for a day and really check out the fences and see if they are deer proof.  If they aren't and the deer have plenty of opportunity to "get away" then I will hunt it more.  Just by having me with bow gives the deer an unfair advantage.

Also, thanks everyone.  On other forums you would never get true ethical reasoning.  The world of Trad still gets it.

[BD]

I'd give it a try. As long as you're not sitting ove a baitpile,this situation sounds OK to ME.

[James Wrenn]

If you are bowhunting on 2500 acres even if the thing was paved and you could see every deer there they would still have plenty of room to get away from you.    

You do as you wish but I would have no problem hunting there.I don't do the record book scoreing mess anyway so that would not be any consideration to me in the first place. jmo

[Ray Hammond]

absolutely, brad...

[John3]

2500 acres is huge.. No ethical issue on my end. I would hunt it and not think twice about it.

If P & Y had an issue about the deer, then they have an issue. I don't think any of your trad brothers would have any issue. They would want a "hunting buddy" invite..LOL
A big buck would not qualify for the book,,, buts thats alright.  No advantage in an area thats almost 4 square miles!!!

Go hunt and shoot straight.

John III

[30coupe]

Compared to the areas we have to hunt in Iowa (with no high fences) 2500 acres is huge! The timber I usually hunt is under 150 acres. The deer generally hang around in the same section (640 acres). Granted, they could go farther away, but you are hunting a much larger area, fence or no.

I'd say, go for it. You'd be surprized how many deer can disappear in that 2500 acres.

[JoeM]

Hunt it and make sure you close that DAMN GATE!!!  I don't want any combat oriented deer mingling with the local deer herd!!!    

[oxnam]

Unless you get them cornered for an easy shot it is a no brainer.  Go for it.  Although, if you chased them all day (on foot of course) and actually manage to corner one, I would have a hard time saying that you didn't earn it.
oxnam

[Bill Tell]

quote:Originally posted by JoeM:
close that DAMN GATE!!!