A&H Recurve???

[Burnsie]

Any news/update on when John and Larry might be introducing their recurve. I'm getting antsie.
Burnsie

[Big Sneaky]

Read the thread on here titled "Wolverine instead of moose."  I believe John was shooting a prototype.

[John Havard]

Hey Troy, the recurve is "in the queue", but will be a ways off yet.  Next on our to-do list will be 1P longbows, and it's not possible to guarantee a date for them to be readily available.  Maybe the next product we introduce after 1P longbows will be recurves.  

Obviously I'm building them and testing them now, and have been for some time.  We're trying to do everything right, test and optimize everything, and do things in an order that lets us get all tooled up within the confines of our business cash flow.

The R&D recurves that are shooting right now are very good, but they aren't as good (performance-wise) as our longbows.  Like all recurves, the final 12" of their limbs weigh a lot more than the final 12" of our longbow limbs.  That means that the recurve dynamic efficiency(DE) will be lower than the DE of our longbows.  Our longbow design stores as much energy per pound of draw force as ANY recurve I have ever tested.  Because of less limb tip mass weight, the longbow wastes less of that precious stored energy on accelerating the dead mass of the limbs forward.  And that means more of that stored energy goes into the arrow - performance.

Therefore, if I am going to come up with a recurve design that matches the performance of our longbows I will have to store even more energy per pound of draw force than our longbow stores.  That's what I'm working on like a fiend right now.  I used to have a full head of hair before this started!!  The recurve I used in Alaska this September on my moose hunt (and which I used to shoot my wolverine) is very promising.  But Larry and I want to get things just right before we turn it loose to the public.  Maybe one day we will ultimately conclude that it's just not possible to match the performance of our ACS longbow with an ACS recurve.  However, I have several more things I want to try before throwing in that towel!

Thanks for your interest, and I promise I'm doing my best to reward your patience with a great bow.  Believe me when I say that I want to provide the public with an ACS recurve even more than you want one.  I just want to make it as good as possible before we release it.

[blueslfb]

John,  I have noticed the ad for A&H and it gives an address of Marne, MI.  That is just 15 minutes down the road from me, is that where A&H is based out of now?  And could I visit and test fire one of the bows?

[Tom Anderson]

John,
Even if the recurve doesn't match the longbow in efficiency, that's O.K. - recurves still have a grace and beauty of their own.

[John Havard]

Sean, yes, our main shop is in Marne.  It's not a fancy store front like some of our bigger competitors but that's where most of the magic happens.  Just call ahead and make sure that Larry will be there.

Tom, I appreciate your input.  Many times I have the same feeling.  I shot my first deer almost (gulp!) 40 years ago with an old Ben Pearson Cougar (I think) recurve.  I still like the way a recurve's limbs feel when they open up.  I'm pretty sure we'll have a recurve that will surpass many/most in performance.  I'd just like to surpass all if possible. I also love the lines of a recurve!

[Burnsie]

John,
Thanks for all the info. I'm sure the final product will be worth the wait.  I too, love the lines and beautiful profile of a recurve, which is why I'm so interested.  I'll be patient and let you guys do your thing.
Thanks Again,  Troy Burns (Burnsie)

[PastorSteveHill]

I recently purchased one of the ACS CX Longbow!  The are without equal in performance..

It has taken me a while to figure it out... I relate it to being married.  Until you figure her likes/dislike out, it can be a little painful... But once you figure it out it is the best thing ever!

I learn more about the ACS CX everyday I shoot it.. Great bows and good guys to deal with...

[trashwood]

Ooooo John, don't forget the ole geezer stringwalker how about a nice 66" with a pluger hole  

rusty

[John Havard]

Hey Rusty,
Good to hear from you! Being one I like old geezers and can always take care of your needs.  Just tell me what you want and it will be done.

John

[trashwood]

John I have thought many times about an r/d tillered even, AL riser, burger buttom hole drilled 1&3/4 up from the  deepest part of the throat, and a stab abuttment drilled 3&1/2" under the deepest part of the throat.  

My longest crawl is near 1&3/8" under a nocking point usually 1/2 above center.

I usually stringwalk a spring rest but have gotten along well with some wrap around magnetic flippers as well as some stick on ones.

I have experimented with several r/d string walking from the shelf.  the seemed to fair very well.

what do you think.  We string walker ask our limbs for quite a bit of torsional stablity and a lot fo for giveness    

rusty

[trashwood]

I usually chose a 64" to 66" recurve.  I find the ones with the earl hoyt cruve in them to be easy scoring.  the limbs like the old groves with lots of recurve, narrower outter tips maybe a bit stiff with a lot of drive from the inner limb to be pretty tuff for string walking unless as a shooter you are very smooth with your loose and no torque at all with your longer cral draws.

rusty

[John Havard]

Rusty, based on your last post it seems that a recurve tip that unloads or opens up is best for your style of string walking?  I'm familiar with the old Groves bows (very fine bows by the way!) and you're right - their tips don't open up much.  Definitely you string walkers need lots of torsional stability.  One thing that our recurve will have in spades is torsional stability.

[trashwood]

well when ya got them going build me a 66" if ya build one that long if not 64" 45#@28" right handed.  drill a buger button hole please.  stab hole is optional.  I looked at your AL riser for he r/d  don't think there may be enough room to put one in.  The AL riser is a nice look riser.

drop my an eamil, pm, or phone call and I'll give ya my money card info.  I have shoot John Frizzels AL ACS quite a bit.  fine bow.

rusty

rusty

[heydeerman]

John,

What about the short longbows?

[John Havard]

Hi Jim,

We're currently building and selling them down to 58" AMO.  The 56" just didn't quite measure up but I haven't given up yet.  At least we have them available now down to 58".

[gilf]

Is there any more information on the recurve John?

Is it still in the pipeline, any idea on a time scale?

[John Havard]

Hello Andrew,

Well, the molds and fixtures for our 1P longbows are now all done.  Larry just finished the 60"-62" a couple of weeks ago.  These 1P longbows are great, with even the 56"-58" holding their own against the longer 1P and 3P bows.  In the interim I have also been developing a super-short (down to 56") 3PTD longbow and it too is looking very promising.  

Next or at least very near the top on our "to-do" list is the recurve.  Since this post began in late 2008, as you might expect, I have been continuing to build experimental molds, test the resulting limbs, learn from each incremental change, cut the mold in half and then build a new one based on what I learned from the previous ones.  The recurves have improved quite a bit since October of 2008.

At this moment the long recurve limb stores between 8% and 9% more energy than our long longbow limb - a vast improvement.  That's saying something since our long longbow limb stores as much or more energy per pound of draw as most any recurve.  Of course a recurve limb, even one with an ACS design, gives up some dynamic efficiency in comparison to a well-designed longbow.  So quite a bit (but thankfully not all) of the energy storage gains are eaten up by a lower DE.  The current iteration of our ACS recurve is one or two fps ahead of our longbow in terms of AMO performance.  

I let a few folks at Compton shoot two of the recurves I had spirited away in the back of my truck, and the reviews were favorable.  While a couple of them weren't wild about the clunky test-mule risers on which I had mounted my R&D limbs (I tried to not take that too personally!), they all raved about the performance as I expected them to.  

My guess is that we can get all of the design work finished and molds cut and fixtures built and begin selling recurves within a year or so.  Ultimately we'll build non-target recurves in a range of lengths which will probably be 56" through 66".

This time last year I was not envisioning the economic downturn and felt that our free cash flow would enable us to move quickly through the expensive process of "tooling up" on both the 1P longbows and subsequently the ACS recurves.  The benefits of building bows out of molds precision-cut with a CNC and then shaping the limbs and risers with a CNC using precision fixtures are simply too great to bypass.  I'd love to have it be sooner since these are really nice, but we all must live within our means.

Thanks for your continued interest.  I think the end result will reward your patience.

[Bjorn]

And speaking of short longbows...........how's mine coming along?      

[wtpops]

Hey John quick question, will the recurve limbs fit on a long bow riser?    

Ah ha i see you are doing the waiting game again Bjorn. I hope to see some pics when the wait is over. Hows that boy doing has he stuck any more pigs?