sights - another traditional hunting style

[trashwood]

over the next week or so I am going to look at sights for the trad recurve bowhunter. We are not talking about the beautifully egineered, ultra accurate olympics sights altough we will be borrowing a piece or two from them.  who is this address to?? to the trad bowhunter who 3under/split finger that shoot 4" groups at 20 yds.....ah no we ain't tring to switch anyone from one style to another.  I am just showing options that don't get discussed very much.  many of them are very practical.

for example - I was hunt with a fellow (who is now in the Feild archery hall of fame but I won't give his name since he can't protect himself   )  we were hunting sheep in a canyon in the panhandle of texas.  we had glassed and walk mile in that red canyon tring to close the distance on an Audad (sp?).  no deal.  finally we found one across the canyon.  it looked like he would be able to get about 60 yds from the sheep and still be hiden.  He took out is bear custom recurve, put a 60 yd target.  he got out a match from a penny match box and some plastic electic tape.  he tape the match to the back of his sight window and proceed to zero in his sight for 60 yds.  now this guy had been state chapion several time over shotting split finger. he didn't need no dang sight...but for this time it is understandable.

I stood on the far bank of the canyon with a spoting scope and directed him to the bedded sheep with hand signals.  all worked out and he ended up 60 yds away from the sheep behind some rocks and he was undetected.

don't know exactly what happened but the ram stood up and he put a arrow thru the boiler room at 60 yds (btw he was shooting 72# the fingers)

i thought is was magic.  he thought it was lucky.  it was unbeliveable  

rusty

[Leo L.]

Good story, thanks for sharing.

[trashwood]

I am going to start with one of my favorite sights.  the SRF designed by David Sosa and carried by 3Rivers.

this rig I call specops    . it is a 48" 45# bear super mag 48.  I use it for hunting 80# in pig tunnels and hunting swamp rabbits in the boggy bottoms.

  http://sites.google.com/site/stringwalkerbowhunter/srfspecops  

group was shot from my knees at 45'.  with this rig we ain't talking about shooting 30 yds.  the green thing on the belly side of the sight window is the SRF sight.  over the next post or two, we'll look at how it is used and why it is so good.


got to go to work and pay for all this non-sense. stay tuned if the topic interests you.

rusty

[wingnut]

I tell ya what, I have one of those SRF sights mounted on a Horne Recurve here at the house.  I use it to introduce new guys to trad archery.  You should see the smiles when there first arrow is in the kill zone on the pig in the front yard.

Now it's not for me. . had enough of sights with the compounds.  But for the new guy or someone that is struggling. . .it could be the answer your looking for.

Mike

[wingnut]

Rusty,

Check out the setup in this thread.

 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=065561

Mike

[Wannabe1]

Tell on, I'm very interested in this. Could see where this setup could come in handy.

[Don Batten]

I shoot Ok without sights, but have played around with an old cobra double slot on one of my bows. the pins are separate so you can adjust for cant. It will tell you if your forms off and also , you can put the pin on the spot instead of just looking at the spot. I'm not for or against them, just get bored with the same old 2" groups at 25yds. LOL. Db

[wihill]

Yep, that's my rig.  I'll readily admit, it's quite a bit far away from the guys that can use nothing but instinctive and routinely put all their arrows in a 2" circle.  

I am NOT one of those guys.  I need help.

I want to make sure that I make every effort to harvest an animal with the best chance of allowing it's exit with a quick and clean fashion.  To do this, I use a sight.  

My confidence is increased, my groups are smaller, I trust in my equipment and my abilities.  Sights may not be for everyone, but they are a great tool for me.  Someday I hope to be able to shoot instinctively, but for right now I owe it to the animal I'm chasing to use the sight.

 

[trashwood]

Wingnut I sure thinik a site can speed along the progress.

Wihii - I am proud looks like a mature doe (no easy task)  you maybe an assesment of you ability.  focused on the tools needed to do the jod cleanly and ethical.  learned to use the tools and broght your plan home.  Much much better than regestering a miss or worse a wound,

One of the stights I will look may be the modle you ae using.  this sight is a Apex Gear single pin verticle,  lighted by a screwed in battery.
please feel free to add any insights are altner views and ways of doing things

rusty

[trashwood]

till the morrow.rusty

[wihill]

The sight in the picture is from Sword Acu-site, a Twilight Hunter.  Definately overkill for this application, I used it because I just couldn't get used to a multipin sight on my wheelbows - it was laying around so I thought what the heck.  On the wheel bows, the pins were too tight, and all I saw was a multicolored vertical line.

I took out a bunch of the pins, and the sight has fiberoptics and a light on the front beam.

Possibly the best thing on it I found was the 3rd Axis adjustment point.  I've never needed one, but I can adjust the axis on the sight housing for my natural cant with the recurve, so when I tip the bow drawing it back the sight pins fall into alignment vertically.  

Definately overkill though.  My next one will be more along the lines of that SRF sight you have.


 

[trashwood]

[all of the graphics and trajectory numbers are much more a representation than actual measurements but they are in the ball park
rusty]


the graphics illustrate the aiming points for 10yds (top), 15yds (middle), 25yds (bottom).
the idea of the sights seems to fit hand a glove with instinctive/gap shooting. what the
sight forces on you is the line.  if you are holding for a lung shot misses left and right are
worse than missing high and low (within reason).  the SRF forces the line.  your eye automatically
center your spot to the center of the sight.  now you have to adust the range.

look at it this way.  a 200 fps arrow drops -5"@10yds, -18"@20yds, -31"@25yds, -43"@30yds.  so the sight window
in this case (10yds to 25yds) 15 yds range in the window and -31" of drop.  the drop takes care of itself
when you get the range correct.  Well and yes it becomes very instinctive after some practice.

Now the hard part to explain is the string "sight" picture.  your adaptibility to using a sight depends on
your anchor point, the structure of your face, and the design of the riser.  An example would be, if you are
a three under shooter and you have a very very high anchor (like some of the indoor target specialist) you will
have such a narrow gap between your eye and the arrow shaft that there will not be enough clearence for the sight.  
you will get arrow interference big time.  

another example is an bowhunter (esp some of the old geezers) willanchor with their thumb around the back of
their neck and the anchor point pretty far back on their face.  this will move the sight so far to the left there
you will run out of sight screw.  well it can go on and on but MOST of us the sight picture is within our visual
range.

My sight picture is:- the string lines up just to the right of the inside line of the riser.  because we anchor
pretty high and just a little out side our eye we can not line up the string even with the arrow tip and
wink the tip of the arrow like the olympic shooters do.  it is easy to see the string line up with our
perpheral vision while we are lining up the spot in the SRF.

   http://sites.google.com/site/stringwalkerbowhunter/srf  

more tomorrow

rusty

[trashwood]

wihill - LOL - oh no there is no such thing as over kill IMO. there is NOTHING i hate more than an 10 hr blood trail and what you may or may not find at the end.

Oh man I am glade to here about the 3ard axis.  I have honestly never seen a sight that I thought worked very well for a  canted bow.  I'll have to find one and look it over.

rusty

[trashwood]

I agree with wilhill.  the multi-pin sights confuse me and with our somewhat limited range may not be the best choice (IM0).  we are gonna look at two more types over the next few day.  the single pin and its useful range and we are gonna barrow an olympic sigt bracket, using it somewhat like the SRF.  we well also look at the olympic sight bracket with a post in it.  sight bracket and post is a very good small game hunt'n rig.

rusty

[sdpeb1]

Site on a trad bow?? My first thought was absolutly not. I've been shootin since april to  get ready to use my first trad bow for deer. But after thinking about it why not. One could reason we owe it to the animal we are taking to use every advantage we can. You could shoot without it for most of the year for fun and then throw on the site when hunting.

[PoppaW]

I was just looking at these sights myself and wondering how easy they were to use. As I shoot off the shelf and cant my bow, I was wondering if the sight can be canted also to match?

[trashwood]

Stephen - there are a lot of good reasons to shot a sight on a trad bow.  I am a perfect example.  Becasue of heart bypasses I had to start back over with much light draws than my life lone 60+ draw.  with the light 44# draw I will not settle for the groups I was shooting,  I now want to put the arrow in a 2" spot with fair consistance.  Couple that fact with the fact that I pulled money shoulder out of shocket tring to hokd up a r1200r motocycle and can out in the anount of practice I did in past for 6 months (right during hunting season) I can stay as shapr as I feel I must to hunt with a trade bow.

PoppaW I shot with t verticle bow. that is by far the easistway to use the sight.  I have seen two clever archers gludge together a bracket that holds the sight verticle with a canted bow.

rusty

[Ray]

Rusty 30yrs ago sights were common as you probably remember.
 Some friends and I at that time use to shoot in a school gym one night a week.I remember taping a toothpick to my bow back then and shooting groups worth talking about.I may have to give that toothpick another try.

[trashwood]

for me personally (not a great judge of distance the SRF (as well as the olympic sight breacket) acts as primitive range finder.  if given the deer are the same size (more or less) and the sight is a fixed size, the sight kinda sets it's own distance after you shoot a few rounds of 3D targets.

now the bad part of sight shooting.  a sight may let you shot smaller groups from the get go but you will not go from 12" groups to 2" groups at 20 yds by puting on of any kind.  the only thing that will make you a good shot is your form.  Form is what starts your accuracy and what stops your accuracy.  

I beleive that a sight well take the aiming arrow away form you and you well then know when you have dropped your bwo arm, pluck the string, lots back pressure or creeped.  the folks I have introduced to a sight have become good shoots much faster than those tha have not used sights.

when using the SRF specifically I think it helps teach you your exact gaps for instinctive shooting.  to me the SRF fits had and glove with my instinctive style.

the last note about a sight in general is that just cause it is there is no reason ya can't shoot any style at the moment ya want to.  For some reason there are many times I will string walk my hunting bow while I have a sight on it.

whe we look at the pin sight, I use it personally for the range the pin will give me by hold center lung.  so that would be about 2" over (closer range) and 2" under (farther range).  it is just a qurick with me.  closer ranges with a single pin I gap the arrow point and the same with longer ranges (getting uo close to point one)

the very first deer I shoot was a doe in the panhandle of texas.  I shot her at 42yds with a 50# Kodiac Special and a 8 wrap crawl.  I did not know 40 yds was a long ways at the time.  I jsut spent all summer long shooting field archery and the average shot was 40 yds. I though 40 yds was close  

on to the pin in the next few days.

rusty

[trashwood]

Ray - so true.  I am not tring to change anyones style or converts to sight.  Just tring to give a small glimpse at another traditional style not seen often BIMO underused as a traditionalk resouce

I hope Wihill we discuss the ends and out of put his sight on the bow and any form adjustmentshe had to make.  I have not had experince with many of the new sights.

rusty