What am I missing here with FF?

[Apex Predator]

I know this debate has been beat to death, but I still can't figure it out.  I have always been a 12-14 strand dacron man.  Now that I am building bows I want to tweak the performance some.  I have tried TS1 Plus in the past on a Hill bow and was not happy with the extra noise.  Now I am building straight and mild R/D longbows.  I figured it was time to try again.  I bought some D97 and twisted up a 12 strand string.  I used as short of a serving as I could get away with.  I think it's .024 FF serving.  I installed the same wool puffs that work so well on my dacron strings.  I tried this string on each of my bows, one straight and one R/D.  Both bows are 66" NTN.  There is a noticeable performance difference which requires me to drop about 50 grains off my point weight on each bow.  It feels crisp at the shot and both bows seems to have a little less shock, even though they are very mild to start with.  The one complaint that outweighs all others for me is the noise.  They are both much louder!  The sharp "tink" noise is not something I can get use to at all.  It sounds like rapping a wooden spoon on my bow limb.  What am I missing, or does everyone that praises these strings just live with that obnoxious noise?  I did play with tuning to see if it would get better.  No dice!

[SCATTERSHOT]

I don't use the stuff much myself, but I have read that you can shoot a lower brace height with FF, and that may solve the noise problem.

[Jeremy]

Don't know what to tell you.  Every longbow I've owned was quieter with TS1 than with dacron.  Is the "tink" the arrow knocking off the riser?

A well-tuned bow, regardless of string material, always has some noise at the shot.  Dacron's pitch is lower than most of the low-stretch materials.  Gently pluck a bare string and you'll hear the difference.  But as far as volume, the lower-stretch materials (except regular old FF) have always been quieter on my longbows.  I'd be more concerned with volume than with pitch, though lower frequency sound waves do travel farther.

[blueline]

I don't know if I am any help here I use B-50 mostly ( price more than any reason) I like the crisp feel of FF I prefer 97 when I use it. Keeping the fibers running the same way, padding the loops, beaver strips or wool. I don't think I have gotten a FF string as quiet as a B-50. JMO

blueline

I have not tried the TS1 mentioned above

[RonD]

Marty, some of the bowyers I know put B50 dacron on their bows and tell the customers that if they choose they can use D97 or any other fast flight material if they choose too since the bow can handle it. Personally, I am sticking with B50 for a number of reasons: (1) with a low draw weight and a short draw length I shoot a low brace height on both the recurve and longbow to help that sharp broadhead when hunting, and (2) the B50 produces less noise than the other materials even though my bows are capable of fast flight material. I don't think string stretch is that big of a concern for people using the B50 material.

[James Wrenn]

What you describe sounds like an arrow with the wrong spine or you have a brace height too low.Try raiseing the braceheight some to see if it helps.You can shoot a higher brace and still get better performance if that helps.You also said you ad to drop arrow weight with the new string so you are now shooting lighter arrows than before.That sometimes means a little more sound.

Personally I have never seen b-50 be any quieter on any bow unless it might be a recurve.The main reason then is just because the bow was shooting slower. jmo

[beachbowhunter]

Everybody has different perceptions. I personally cannot tolerate the twangy sound that dacron makes...

[bbassi]

I know what you mean about the difference in sound. It's not so much pitch as it is "sharpness" of the sound that bothers me. I have 2 R/D bows, a Morrison and a Pronghorn, that like D97, but I couldn't stand the noise until I stumbled on the secret. Try a Mountian Muffler type string if you can find it. The difference is amazing.    

[Apex Predator]

Well, I normally shoot 650 grain arrows, but had to reduce tip wieght by 50 grains to stiffen them up some for the D97.  This is on 50# bows.  I think I have plenty of arrow weight.  I dropped the point weight because they were showing a little weak while bare shafting.  I was able to fine tune each bow, but can't live with the violent sound of the D97.  Maybe I am just used to a very quiet bow, and others are able to settle for less?

[James Wrenn]

Maybe you just built a Dacron bow instead of a FF bow.    If you like the b-50 why not just shoot that?If I saw the results you speak of I would certainly do so but do not think it is the norm.jmo

[tradtusker]

iv had mixed results i could not get ff as quiet as the Dacron one some of my bows but then others have been way way better with Fast Flight +450 D97 some bows just seem to me to suit a certain string better.

when i switched the sounds of the fast flight was weird but now i don't like the feel or sound of Dacon feels like its slow and vibrating, just get used to things i guess

[LBR]

I get comments all the time on how quiet my longbows is, and I use a Dynaflight '97 string.  My arrows weigh 9-9.5 gpp.  It's a deflex/reflex design.

When you switch strings, you have to re-tune, and not just the arrows.  Besides making sure you have good arrow flight (not just watching the arrow fly--use O.L.'s method), be sure your nock fit is correct and your silencers are in the right spots.  I use one small set of cat whiskers, tied on around the string.  Moving them an inch or so up or down the string can make a difference.  Rubber works best as a silencer in my experience.

Chad

[madness522]

One thing I have found to help quite down D97 strings is to pad the loops with extra strands.  I like 12 strand strings with 18 strand padded loops.

[Apex Predator]

I really want this to work, so will continue to play with it.  I just haven't seen or "heard" the results most talk about with these newer string materials.

[tradtusker]

like madness i have the loops of the FF strings padded

[LBR]

Padded loops do help--I use dacron for padding, usually pad out the loops in Dynaflight to 18 strands.

Chad

[Str8Shooter]

I find that on some bow designs the type of FF string material can make a difference. I have a heavily R/D longbow that can be noisy with the wrong string. I've found that D97 on that bow is high pitched and a little loud. TS+ was quieter yet and regular Fast Flight was the quietest.

Strand count can also make a difference on noise levels with certain bows.

[Mohawkbows]

I just use the FF plus on my bows, 14 strands for everything up to 65#, and it makes a big difference in feel, sound and performance over B50. Maybe Destefano will chime in, he experiments quite a bit with the different modern string materials.

[WidowEater]

Ive researched this topic to death just as it has been posted upon a lot.  OL Adcock has the best wisdom on it but I think he will be in agreement with me on this.

The reason there is more noise is because the string is less stretchy.  The energy from the bow that is left over from firing the arrow does not go into the string directly instead it causes noise which is excess energy.  In the switch form B50 to FF you have to understand there is going to be a performance gain in the form of ft/lbs of energy.  If you use the same arrows as you most likely will you will see an increase in noise.  This is because the string imparts more energy into the arrow just the same way as an increase in bow poundage will impart more energy into the arrow.  To maximize your efficiency with any bow you have to use correct grains/lb of arrow weight.  I think you can see where I am going with this.  

There is an increase in noise because the arrows you are using are too light.  They were just the right weight when you were using B50 but now with FF they are too light and they cause excess energy loss or noise.  You even exacerbated the problem when you dropped down in point weight to stiffen up the spine of your arrows.

In short the arrows are too light and you need at least 10 gr/lb of arrow weight.

[Dozer]

He said earlier that he's shooting a 650gr arrow out of a 50lb bow. Even with the 50gr drop he still is within the 10gr per pound.

I say who cares if you shoot Dacron or FF. As long as you have a setup that works is all that matters.

JMO