Pa Bow Hunters Need Your Help

[Roy from Pa]

Next Thursday October 23rd the PGC Commission is holding a public meeting to get input from both sides on the crossbow issue in Pa. The crossbow manufactures and crossbow groups are pushing to get crossbows introduced into all Archery Seasons. We Pa Bow Hunters are fighting to keep the crossbows out of our seasons. We have been writing letters to the PGC and our legislators, many of us intend to attend this meeting. It would be greatly appreciated if you guys would write a letter to the PGC and add your support for us by asking the PGC Commissioners to keep the crossbows out of our Bow Seasons. If you guys from other states which have crossbows in your seasons could explain any problems or reasons as to why Pa should not allow them, please do so. You can send e-mails to  [email protected]  and note to the attention of Carl Roe, Executive Director. And tell them to request that your letter be shared with the members of the PGC Board of Commissioners. Thanks Roy

[jimmerc]

You got Roy! This is a fight we here in new york will soon be having! crossbows are guns that shoot arrows!

[Roy from Pa]

Thanks Jim, you need any help when the time comes, let us know here in Pa.

[Jerry Jeffer]

I just can't agree. Special seasons and elitist attitude is fodder for anti hunting. Is it really going to ruin your hunting? IMO a compound is also a gun that shoots arrows. What about disabled people who could use a cross bow but can't pull back a longbow, recurve, or compound? Sorry, not try to start any thing. Just can't agree on this.

[Roy from Pa]

Crossbows are legal for handicapped people already. There are 1 million hunters in Pa, 300,000 bow hunters. What happens if another 100,000 decide to use the crossbow in archery season? The harvest rate climbs and bow season gets shortened.

[doeboy]

So basically you are being greedy buy not sharing the seasons? I agree that they stink but if it gets more guys in the woods and keeps the rest of the sport strong its worth it.We need to stop fighting and join together to fight the anti-hunters and gun haters.

[Doc Nock]

Jerry,Doeboy,

REspectfully offered in rebutal, bows have been defined and classified since our seasons were inaugarated as "hand drawn, hand held, in the presence of game."

One needs limited movement to shoot a "string gun". It has a stock, trigger, scope, safety and all one needs to do is flick off the safey and fire.  

Sorry. I don't agree there is a direct comparison to a compound. I knew a guy who opened up a .410 shot shell, dumped the pellets and inserted into his single bbl shotgun, stuck a broadhead tipped alum arrow down into the casing and fired it... It was impressive at 70 yards! Doesn't make it a bow! (just trying to lighten the mood here)   :rolleyes:  

Most of us who have gotten "busted" did so as we were drawing our bow...the movement is what gives us away... granted, a compound with 80% let off can be drawn early and held a "while"...    but those of us who used to shoot wheels know that impeeds accuracy pretty quickly. We read stories of guys unable to hold the bow steady and mmmmissed!      

Respectfully, I don't think it's "elitist" at all to suggest that we keep the "arch" in archery and require any weapon used in that special season, for which we pay a premium percentage for a special archery tag all these years, meet the lawfully established requirements of "hand drawn, hand-held in the presence of game!"

It's what makes a bow a bow and not a "string gun." We fought down the "draw locks" that allowed a compound to be drawn at 3/4 draw and locked that way... and a xbow takes that a whole lot farther down the "its not a bow" definition!

Fighting to protect what was and is "archery" for a special "archery season" (which we pay a handsome additional fee), is not being the least bit arbitrary or delimiting! Special seasons are for special weapons. When technology over-reaches that point, those of us who fought to get those seasons and wish to preserve those "special" season, within limits, that, in my opinion, is entirely whole and right to do so!

There are many discussions that ensue. It ranges from the reality that if someone has a physical limitation in PA that prevents their pulling a "bow" then it's so easy to get a doctor to sign off for a crossbow permit, that we know there are abuses.  However, it's a risk we embrace because it isn't worth risking holding anyone from the woods with a "legitmate" physical limitation.  The other side of it is, that since we have accomodations for those physically in need, the others who would opt for a string gun would be those who choose to NOT put in the time or effort to become proficient with a compound bow or trad equipment.

Additionally, because a X-bow comes in high poundage, having sold them in archery stores to neophytes, I know they believe they can shoot as far as they can see! That tiny cross bow bolt sheds energy fast! Folks with limited ability, knowledge or desire to master special season equipment, should not, by my standards, engage in those special seasons! It's "special" for a reason!  

There is little justification, in my opinon, to embrace folks into a special, primative weapons season, who do not have a need for a cross bow and only do so to avoid learning to use the special weapon associated with that season.

Thanks for allowing us to share opposing views to yours, guys.

[Roy from Pa]

You can call it greedy if you like doeboy, I call it protecting our short 6 week season. There are 300,000 folks who bow hunt with real bows, no reason if others want to bow hunt, they couldn't shoot a stick bow or compound like the rest of us do.

[Jerry Jeffer]

Ok Doc. You have a great argument and sure I was a bit extreme with the compound comment.  Still, I hunt with my bow all through bow, muzzle loader and rifle season, so I don't feel I have a short season, and I'm not too worried about what others want to use to get their meat. If you all don't want the cross bows around, best of luck to you in your protest. Like Doeboy, I think hunters need to be more together on things and stop separating ourselves.

[kojac]

I'm sorry but this "we all need to be more together" stuff is plum wrong. I don't agree with Terrorism, Amnesty, or Banning our right to bare arms so do you think I need to be more together on things and stop separating ourselves.

There is no reason what so every that the cross bow hunters can't  hunt in the gun season but there are a MILLION and one reasons why they should "NOT" be allowed during bow season.

Keep in mind a bow was intended to be a primitive, short range weapon. If someone can't hunt with a bow than I'm sorry but so be it. Knowone has a birthright to be a bowhunter for crying out loud. To keep things primitive we have draw the line somewhere and in My opinion the line NEEDS to be draw before the crossbow.

[imskippy]

I'm on both sides of the fence. I agree that we need the support of "all" hunters regardless of weapon choice. However I still feel that "Bow" season should be exactly that. A hand drawn, hand held bow as stated before. Here in Jersey they will be adding the crossbow into the "bow" category for the 2009-10 season. I don't like the idea at all but again as long as the purchase of the xbow is taxed the same way as archery equipment and the licences are sold to help preserve our state owned lands and wildlife management than I guess I can deal with it. There has always been an available permit for the xbow by disabled persons qualified by a physician and approved by the div. of fish and game. I never did see one hunting.

One change I would like to see is the ability to hunt with the bow in all seasons like i hear alot of other states allow. Skippy

[jmdavis]

My opinion, and the experience that it is based on, is that it is easier to take a deer with a compound than a crossbow.

Using sights and a release, I can take a modern compound and put every shot into 2 inches at 30 yards. I cannot do the same with a modern crossbow.

The compound is quieter, more accurate, has the same range, and often offers the opportunity for a follow-up, The crossbow can say none of that. As for the optics, scopes and lasers are available for compounds as well.

In Virginia crossbows were made legal for general use in 2005. Last years harvest shows <4% of the total deer harvest coming from Crossbow hunters. Interestingly, deer harvests have remained basically steady. +-10% from 2003-2008.

For the record, I started hunting with a recurve in 1977. I did that for several years and then stopped hunting entirely from 1986-1991. In 1992 I bought a compound and started bowhunting again. I used compounds until 2006 taking 0-3 deer in any given year.

In 2006 I took up the crossbow, Excalibur. Part of the reason for this decision was new local regulations that prevented me from shooting my bow at my home. I thought that the crossbow might be a good hunting tool since I couldn't shoot as much as I would like.

I used the crossbow in 2006, 2007,2008. I could never get very excited over it and I discovered that my hunting suffered. Last year, I decided to go back to the recurve, my original Black Bear from 1976. In the Spring, I wound up buying a longbow and really enjoying it.

Last week I decided that I really wanted to take at least one deer with the crossbow before I permanently retired it. I did that and it is now out to pasture. It just isn't that fun to shoot. It's noisy. It's ungainly in the woods.

I took a 27 yard shot with a crossbow that crony's at 305fps. In the time that it took for the arrow to reach the deer, she dropped 2 feet and made a quarter turn. What should have been a double lung shot severed the spine and cut the carotid artery.

I know that this is a long post so I will finally get to the point. I think that crossbows are pretty much a non-issue. They are easier to shoot, but more difficult to shoot as accurately. They are noisy. They are more difficult to use in thick woods. In my club, four new people started hunting with the crossbow. Of these four 2 were kids, 12 and 14. And two were over 55 with health issues. Four archers, including one in a wheelchair, switched to the crossbow. two are happy with it. I and another are not. I have switched to traditional and I expect at least one of the other crossbow shooters to join the traditional ranks as well.

[Roy from Pa]

It's ok for we Bow Hunters to agree to disagree. We all are entitled to our opinions. I did not start this thread with the intensions of starting any arguments. My goal with this thread was to seek help from those who care to help fellow Bow Hunters, be it Pa, or any other state. Right now it is Pa Bow Hunters who need your support, if you care to give it, then thanks, if you choose not to help, then that is fine also. I do not judge people, that is the Man's job way up above us to judge each and everyone of us. All I was asking here if it was possible for some of you to write a letter to the PGC Commissioners, stating your disapproval of including crossbows in Pa's general archery season. It does not matter if you are not a Pa resident, anyone is free to write letters. The contact info is in my very first post. The meeting to decide this will be held this coming Thursday Oct 23rd. And I thought an influx of anti crossbow letters just prior to the meeting could sway the commissioner in our favor. Thanks, Roy

[Tioga]

I shot a crossbow for 2 seasons due to a back injury. There's just no doubt about it, it ain't bow hunting. The hardest thing about hunting with a crossbow is clicking off the safety quietly.

  I have no problems with a crossbow season. I have no problem with folks enjoying the autumn woods with their weapon of choice. What I do have a problem with is a bigger harvest leading to shortened seasons. But there's no doubt about it, the crossbow will be here soon.

  I've written my letters stating that I'd like to see a 1 week crossbow season in conjunction with the inline season during the 3rd week of October. Close the regular archery season during that week and add it on to the last week of the extended November season.

[Dale Hajas]

Before you doubt check it out...  Google Talisman Crossbows and see what a 600 FEET PER SECOND crossbow looks like. There's vids on
Ar%#&^@^yT&%k.com of the weapon that CONVERTS to a verticle bow, shooting THRU METAL SIGNS

[Roy from Pa]

What will they think of next Dale?

[TonyW]

You can send e-mails to [email protected] and note to the attention of Carl Roe, Executive Director. And tell them to request that your letter be shared with the members of the PGC Board of Commissioners.

We don't need more hunters with the mentality of a paintball sniper. Look closely at the lineup at the "archery" counter at Bass Pro Shops. A crossbow for an able-bodied hunter is as sporting as wheeling around Target on one of their "Rascals." Those are the same guys so eager to cut corners that their trucks probably block two handicapped spaces in the parking lot.

[Roy from Pa]

That is right Tony, so did you fire off a letter to the PA PGC for us?

[Roy from Pa]

Come on guys, Please take 5 minutes to write a letter to support Bow Hunting as it should be.

[SteveB]

I only write if I support a position.
And I am not a snake.  

Steve