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Author Topic: The crisis of conscious.  (Read 596 times)

Offline wihill

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The crisis of conscious.
« on: November 02, 2008, 11:38:00 PM »
Please bear with me.

While I choose to shoot traditionally now and then, I hunt with others that don't. I don't force my opinions on others, thats not who I am - however I chose to share this on another board I frequent in the hopes that someone might pause and think..

I had an interesting weekend.

I'll readily admit, my eyes have been opened from shooting traditionally. Shots that I thought were slam dunk have become a hard look, an evaluation of my ability to the leathality of my shot. I hate to say I've begun second guessing things, but I've started taking a stern look at what distances and shot angles are appropriate when taking game for me.

Case in point. I had three does come within at least 30 yrds of me this weekend. All broadside, all shots that I would normally - read as pre-traditional - consider a shooter type scenario. I held all shots, for one reason or another deciding that I didn't care for the angle of the animal, the agitation level of the animal, the time of day that could result in a late night bloodtrailing with possible rain on the horizon.. I've started to take into account variables that previously haven't really mattered to me.

Here's where it gets interesting, at least for me.

A fellow hunter, one that I enjoy hunting with, was with me. I don't necessarily consider him (or myself for that matter) to be a fanastic judge of the situation, but responds well to pressure and the decision making process. I feel he made a bad choice that night.

I passed on a doe at 31yds as ranged by my Nikon. It was late, rain was coming, surrounding area was not conducive to trailing in my opinion - so I let her walk. She walked straight into my partner, who didn't hesitate on the shot. I watched the hit, and thought it was solid from my vantage point. After a bit, I walked from my position to the point of impact, and ranged my buddy's stand. 32yrds. I asked him when he got down to me what he shot the doe at - 23yrds he said. We found the arrow, and it was covered in fat, with white hair, the blood trail was steady red, but sparse.

I decided to take up the trail immediately due to the oncoming rain. After tracking through the woods, through the corn field, through the tall grass, we hit a cut hay field. I've never had such a terrible time blood trailing as I did going from leaf to leaf in a cut hay field following blood spatter. It took almost 2 hours to cross 20 acres, all the while listening to "we should give up, this is taking too long, we'll find her in the morning..." .

Eventually, after kicking her up an hour later in a small stand of woods much to our south, I had to agree.

I didn't sleep well, knowing the hit wasn't solid. So at first light I packed up and went back to the spot of last blood. It was the most unusual pattern, fresh blood north, south, east, west - all no more than 20 feet and then nothing. I looked for hours, every now and then I've find a spot on a leaf, then nothing. It was a proverbial needle and in a haystack.

I hated to give up, but eventually I just ran out of help. I had no more blood, my buddy was content to loose the shot, and the response I got back was "at least it was only a doe".

Maybe I've changed, I don't know. My perceptions have really changed from shooting a traditional bow, with my limited range I've become so much more particular with shot placement and range. I don't care if it's a doe or a buck, they deserve my best to try and kill them as humanely and quickly as possible.

If that means I pass on the shot, I pass on the shot.

Something's happened to me this year. I'm not sure what it is, but I'm definately aware that it's happened. Take what you will from this story, while I won't brow beat my hunter partner of years for my opinion of his candor, I would encourage you to take a hard look at what each of you is truely capable of.

What if you where on the other side of that arrow?

I appreciate the moment to clear my head,

Chris

  :coffee:
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Offline wtpops

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2008, 12:10:00 AM »
Congrats you are a traditional archer and most of all a hunter. When you get that deer (doe or buck) within your range and make a good clean kill you will have a greater feeling of acomplishment than your buddy. (not putting him down at all)
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Offline caleb7mm

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2008, 12:43:00 AM »
I dont think it had to do with shooting trad gear, it had to do with the mindset that brought you to love to shoot trad gear. The same thing happened to me before I started shooting trad again, and I just "happened" to go back to my roots because of it.

Congratulations on your conscious though. It will lead you in the right direction as it has done for me.

--c--
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Offline Fritz

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2008, 12:48:00 AM »
Feel the same way.  Passed on a really big 7 point the other morning at 15 yards, because he gave me nothing but a quartering to angle. After telling a buddy about it, he said, "You should have shot him".  I just told him I felt better about letting him walk than taking a less than perfect shot.
God is good, all the time!!!

Offline Curtis Haden

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2008, 01:07:00 AM »
I think most "traditional" hunters are possessed of a well developed conscience.  Of course, there are always exceptions.  The fact that we choose a more simplistic method is many times a natural progression in maturity and respect for the animals we pursue.

About the only thing I disagree with you on is your post title.  There is no "crisis" in conscience.  It's your own to evaluate and interpret.  I wouldn't worry about my buddy's decision to shoot, rather I would consider more the attitude after the shot.  The fact of the matter is, we don't know if that's normally a good scenario for him or not.  From what you posted, he obviously misinterpreted the range, but that probably happens more times than not without the benefit of electronic aids.

Making a marginal shot certainly does not make a bad man.  Taking a marginal shot may or may not make a poor hunter, depending on your own standards.  It's up to you to decide if his attitude about it is enough to affect your hunting association.

I've come to the conclusion that my opinions (or anyone else's) are not going to change most people.  The best we can hope for is to find a few like-minded folks to call friends.  Then again, even the best of friends will eventually disagree on some issue or another.
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Offline Killdeer

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2008, 05:20:00 AM »
Thank you for the story. I have run into the same thing out there in the woods, and I am glad to hear from yet another like-minded hunter. Being a gal, hearing the words "only a doe" gets my hackles up, as well as saddens me. A life is a life, and it is all she has.

Killdeer
Long, long afterward, in an oak I found the arrow, still unbroke;
And the song, from beginning to end, I found again in the heart of a friend.

~Longfellow

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Offline Watt

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2008, 05:42:00 AM »
What crisis? You acted on your ethics. You seemed to do all you could to find the deer even though you had no part in its 'wounding?'. I would be proud to hunt with anyone who is guilded by such a conscious, such as you.
In my opinon there is no such thing as ONLY anything, all prey deserves as much respect as I can give, irrespective of species, sex or size.
Watt

Offline trapperDave

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2008, 08:55:00 AM »
I feel the same way....one life is as valuable as another regardless of headgear or lack there of.

One thing I have learned over the years, on an evening hunt, if I dont see it go down...i wait till morning.  A dead deer isnt going anywhere, a marginally hit deer will leave the county if you jump it out of its bed....

Offline Abram

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2008, 09:51:00 AM »
We as hunters and conservationist owe it to the game we are hunting, our fellow hunters and the non-hunting public to be as ethical as we can. Passing on a shot that we feel does not ensure a humane and quick kill only goes to show that we as hunters have progressed and evolved. Everyone who hunts, both veteran and newbie should take heed to your thoughts and story.

Offline Doc Nock

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2008, 10:29:00 AM »
I hestitated 15+ years ago to come "back" to traditional equipment for the same reasons of conscience. I was afraid I'd not be good enough to successfully take a deer and place my shots consistently.

Then it happened w/ a compound.  22 yards, clear shot... hit a single tiny branch of a green briar sticking straight up I didn't see...and it hit far back, deflecting the light arrows so popular back then (and now?) with modern bow shooters.

I watched that buck lie down, within 15 yards in thick stuff...couldn't shoot... state boundary line was 75 yards away and not huntable--couldn't trail or recover. I was trapped and couldn't risk getting down to try a shot.

So I waited for the deer to die. It was a perfect liver shot. No blood where it lie for 2 hrs... and that was the most gut-wrenching 2 hrs of my life. I almost quit hunting with a bow--- period.

From then on, it became a situation where I KNEW (for me) that I will never see EVERY obstacle in the woods between me and a deer, under any conditions, and that I was limiting all my shots, compound or not, to inside 20 yards in the woods...30 in the field cause I practiced it regularly, but 20 in the woods with brush around.

From there..it was easy to realize that I didn't need all the gizmos to shoot 20 yards and I slowly gained confidence to switch to the simple stick and string of my youth! Never looked back.

Still limit myself to 20 yards or in... shoot and shoot decently at 30..even farther, under field conditions, but...wont' take the chance on game... they move and things just seem to show up I didn't see.

Like Killy says...life is precious... all life. I take seriously the responsibility for trying to end any life.

Congratulations. The choices you've made and where you now are is way beyond a question of equipment!
The words "Child" and "terminal illness" should never share the same sentence! Those who care-do, others question!

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Offline Sarah

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2008, 12:08:00 PM »
I wouldn't call this a crisis either. You did the absolute right thing, and that is honorable. One of the things I treasure most about this community is the respect that is present here; for fellow hunters and for the animals we hunt.

Glad you shared this story. Whenever I try to explain to others about my range or comfort level with various situations I feel somewhat awkward because I have so many limitations. Then I always think: "taking a life shouldn't ever be easy."

Well done.

Sarah

Offline Dave Lay

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2008, 12:20:00 PM »
excellent.. thanks for sharing, the comment "it was only a doe" is just wrong, sorry your buddy lost his deer.
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Online McDave

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2008, 01:02:00 PM »
I think we owe it to ourselves and to the game we hunt to take only "high percentage" shots.  By that I mean shots that we have practiced enough, or made enough in the past, that there is no reason to believe we won't make again.  What a "high percentage" shot means would vary from hunter to hunter, but I think most ethical hunters would pass on a shot they could only make 2 out of 3 times.  On the other hand,we need to be realistic enough to know that it is never going to be 100% either.

I hunt ducks, and even though I don't take shots at ducks I don't believe I can kill, some of them do glide off in a way that you know they've been hit, particularly in these days of steel shot, and will probably die a half mile off in the tulies.  I fish and know that some of the fish I hook and lose will probably die, particularly if one swims away with one of my lures in its mouth.

I suppose the bigger and smarter the animal is, the worse we feel if one is wounded and not recovered.  But whatever the animal, as was mentioned above, it still just has one life to give.

I feel bad about every duck and fish I lose, and try to recover those I can, and I'm sure I would feel worse if I hit a deer and couldn't revover it.  I even have a moment of sorrow when I kill a deer and do recover it.

But when you've done everything you reasonably can to recover a wounded animal, and can't find it, then that should be that.  If you took a shot you shouldn't have, then that is something worth pondering in the future.  Otherwise, if someone continues to have negative feelings about it, I would say that person probably didn't carefully think through all the probable ramifications of hunting with the bow and arrow.
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Offline Bill Tell

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2008, 01:25:00 PM »
Wihill,

Although your buddy didn't say anything I bet he learned a big lesson.  You showed him with your actions what is right.  I bet he is still thinking on it.

Sometimes a bad lesson is just what it takes to learn many good things.

When I was a child my brother and I killed a chipmunk with a stick.  When I brought it to my father he asked me and my brother what we were going to do with it.  I cried for a long time because I knew what he really meant.  Bad lesson but I have carried it with me to this day.
"I'm going to find my direction magnetically. " Eddie Vedder

Offline Bill Tell

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2008, 01:31:00 PM »
I think it is telling that on the other site there has only been 3 replies to the story.  It just seems like trad guys and gals get it.  Hate to generalize but sure seems like it.
"I'm going to find my direction magnetically. " Eddie Vedder

Offline caleb7mm

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2008, 06:36:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bill Tell:
I think it is telling that on the other site there has only been 3 replies to the story.  It just seems like trad guys and gals get it.  Hate to generalize but sure seems like it.
X2
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Offline Shaun

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2008, 06:55:00 PM »
Every hunt contains moments, sometimes hours, of conscience. We are dealing with life and death, choices and consequences. It sounds to me like you spearheaded a thoughtful and thorough attempt to recover a marginal hit deer. Kudos!

Offline redfish

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2008, 08:04:00 PM »
If it was all about killing a deer I would have to use claymores.
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Offline Dale Hajas

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2008, 08:13:00 PM »
I was once standing in front of a IBEP class in Pittsburgh for one of the managed hunting groups there. A fellow was talking about a big buck (150" class) he had taken from a previous year. When asked to relay the story with the whole class at attention he refused. He went on to reply that it wasnt a big deal.

After class during some goodbye chatter we got to discussing the hunt of the big buck. He then told the entire story to me.
 
The giant buck you see, was 55 yards from his perch. 55 yards is BIG TROUBLE here in Penns woods. Of course the shot deflected and gut shot the deer. He found it 2 days later and had to finish it off. He had the buck mounted but was not very proud of how it was claimed. Shame too.

Imagine taking a 150 class deer, and NOT wanting to tell the story. And then also seeing that mount everyday and still feeling the hunt was a degraded claim of victory?? What of the animals majesty? The hunt itself? The prowess and woodsmanship skills of the hunter??

 One of the IBEP segments had to do with yardage estimation and actually you cant imagine how many - 85% I bet- completely miss the yardage in OPEN fields within 20 yards!! I used to hold a pencil at my pants pocket and NOT ONE time did experienced hunters recognize the pencil, yet they could tell that in my other hand I was holding something, "like maybe a stick". 20 Yards open field.....

The "It's only a doe" thing gets me going as well. Yeah like does are just incubators.

I believe that those of us that agree with you, would tend to accept the consciousness of a "crisis" that the entire hunt, the memory relies upon.

You did well.
"So long as the new moon returns in Heaven a bent, beautiful bow,
so long will the fascination of archery keep hold the hearts of men"

Offline mdwatts

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Re: The crisis of conscious.
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2008, 08:25:00 PM »
Great story and well written.  Thanks for your sharing.
Best regards in traditional,
Marion

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