Exit Holes .. bloodtrails. . penetration?

[Bill Turner]

No doubt in my mind that the exit wound is the key. If the blood is not on the ground, but in the body cavity, the differculty in tracking and finding game is substanually increased. Also, I've hunted out of high tree stands in the past. Killed a nice doe from 25 to 30 feet up last year but you can bet it was because I had no other choice at that time. Don't like it and don't advise it. Shot angle makes arrow placement differcult at ranges I prefer with traditional equipment(15 to 18 yds. max).

[Novaln1975]

Thaught a few pics would be nice right about now... -Simon

 
 

[Kingwouldbe]

Years ago, I got caught up with the mentality that I want a big 3 blade hole in the side of the animal.

What I experienced was 10 times the reaction from the arrow broadhead combo by the animal, they ran farther and faster with way more panic.

Most of my kills fall over insight, less than 15 seconds on average, I'll even bump it up to 30 sec. to be safe, why?

I think it's two things,
#1 supper duper, no fakes, razor honed 2 blade.( I think some die just knowing this arrow/broadhead is coming and lie down. LOL just kidding)        

#2 the arrow passed through so fast, they have no clue they have been mortally wounded and just walk off or a short trot off.

The animal 1st passes out, because there blood pressure drops and there lungs have collapsed, so no blood or air is going to the brain.

They die, because they are having massive hemoraging while they are passed out.

I don't want the animal to even know it's been hit and go into panic mode.

The amount of blood on the ground, has way more to do with how sharp the head was, as it passed through, than how many blades there are.

Want to know how long you can go with out air?

Do 15-20 push ups, exhale all your air and run as fast as you can with out taking a breath, you wont make it to the 20 yard line ( make sure you do this on grass, because you is going to pass out)        PS. let us know how you do.

[Steertalker]

[wingnut]

[Ted Fry]

Mike , getting back on the original question, I like Curtis prefer to have a complete pass through,
for both the animals I hunt as well as the bear hunters I guide , generally it has been my experience that there has been more blood with the pass through thus making it easier to find the animal, dont get me wrong , animals hit well in the lungs with the arrow in them do die and most of the time are found but there is less blood on the outside of the body cavity.
You cant beat a good pass through with the exit low in the body cavity, like pulling the drain plug from an oil pan

[James Wrenn]

I have always picked the shot for exits with gun or bow.I thought everyone did it that way.  :confused:

[Jason Jelinek]

I think you have a good idea Mike.  Low with 2 holes gives some great blood trails.  I shot one this year high with 2 holes and even though it was full of blood, no blood trail.  With some good help we recovered it.

The question is what shot opportunities will give you the exit hole with the equipment you're using.  If one were to use a mechanical head it would be wise to only shoot broadside staying away from any medium to heavy bone.  Same goes for a light arrow, low draw weight, or three blade head.  The quartering away shot may still be a good opportunity with a heavy, sturdy arrow with a long, narrow, sturdy 2 blade broadhead.

Jason

[Steertalker]

Mike,

My sincerest apology.  Was not trying to hijack anything.  Just expressing my opinion as to the best way to get an exit wound.  Yes I did get off the subject a bit and for that I apologize.  I will try to delete all previous posts.

Brett

[trashwood]

the general approach to the topic was excellent and the question driving the discussion is likeky one fo the most important question ti answer,  i can not sya that I have recovered every deerf I;ve shot but I have know idea how a couple were not found dead due to the amount of bloodtheyu lost.  I went seveal days in a row dee if I could discover their where abouts by the buzzard and or crows.

rusty

[LITTLEBIGMAN]

i am starting to "rethink the use of my 2 blades. The following exit hole pictures are of bucks recently killed. The first is a liver hit buck. The shot was 6 yards out of a tree stand no more then 10 feet above the deer. The blood trail after 50 yards was non existent

 
This buck was jumped from his bed 10 hours after he was shot and then I had a better blood trail

Yesterdays buck was shot from three yards but from about 16 feet above him a very steep shot thru the near lung and out the bottom ..It was snowing , there was blood on the ground at the point of impact and then just flecks of blood for 300 yards. Granted it was snowing hard and had that not been occuring the trail would not have been so difficult, would a three blade have been better?

 

[wingnut]

Well first of all congrats on the two bucks.  The goal is afterall to kill and find them.

Second, I don't think the broadhead selection caused a poor bloodtrail.  Possibly the shot execution was at fault.  The first one with a liver hit and exiting that high, most of the blood will collect in the paunch and it's easy for the stomach to plug the hole.  Paunch hits and near paunch hits are real tough.  A bigger hole might have helped but probably not.

The second buck was at extreem angle down.  A shot that looks very inviting but often results in a long trail.  Your buck was classic with the single lung hit.  The exit hole probably was the only reason you recovered him.  Try to let em get out a little more decrease the angle and catch that second lung.  The trail will be better and much shorter.

Mike

[SERGIO VENNERI]

Mike; great point to bring up ( no pun intended) . I can remember like it was yesterday, having that very discussion with Paul Schafer, during one of our conversations that very subject came up,Pass through are almost definitely a must and that when we aimed we both shot for the EXIT HOLE. That way if you had executed the shot correctly you knew before you tracked the organs that you had passed through. We both agreed that it had to be almost like billiards, where you call your shot ( in your mind) before you make it. The other thing we both did  and i continue to do, is imaginary shots, for example if a dog or cat walks by I imagine shooting it , the draw , release , follow through . It really helps prepare you mentally for the moment of truth! Now I must add a disclaimer... that i am not nearly the hunter or shot that schafe was!! What a great Site the tradgang is!!!

[Big_Al]

I'm not a fan of 2-blade heads, unless they're BIG - like Interceptor/Tree Shark big.  3-blade snuffer-type heads are good, but sometimes can hinder penetration.  I think 2-blades with small bleeders (Stingers, etc) are the best of both worlds.  Flight characteristics and nearly the penetration of a 2-blade, damage comparable to the 3-blades.  For treestand hunters, I think the exit hole is far more important than the entry hole.  The first deer I shot with a trad bow was a steep shot with a 2-blade head - I got the perfect "3-D" shot, but the broadhead got stopped by the offside shoulder.  No blood trail, and the dogs brought the head and my arrow back a few weeks later.

My experience is limited, take it for what it's worth.

[Bonebuster]

This is a good thread.

Part of our success as bowhunters comes from experience. We learn through hard lessons what works and what does not.

My experience with big game is limited to a couple hogs, and whitetailed deer.

As many of you know, hogs can take alot of killing, especially the big ones. The hogs I have met, carried my arrows away, and remained on their feet MUCH longer than any Whitetail EVER could, given the same hit. I was AMAZED.

 I now know, that if I had been using a broadhead that had steel hard enough to remain sharp after penetrating something as hard and thick as marine plywood, I am sure the bloodtrails would have been much shorter. My broadheads were scary when they went in, but when they came out, they were as dull as if I had been shooting them into sand all summer long. Hard lesson learned. Without my broadhead protruding, creating two holes, I am sure it would have been difficult to find my hogs.

Having many friends who bowhunt, I have gotten alot of experience tracking deer.

Through the years, I have noticed a few things.

I noticed that deer travel MUCH farther when the arrow remains in them. ALWAYS.

I have no idea exactly how many deer I have killed with an arrow, but I have never had one run just a short ways and stop, when the arrow remained in them.

Even without a pass-thru, two holes are always better than one. Two holes will certainly not decrease the amount of blood flow to the ground.

[Morning Star]

I noticed that deer travel MUCH farther when the arrow remains in them. ALWAYS.

Yep, scared and running.  Having 2 holes and the arrow sticking in the ground is by far the best scenario.

[BradLantz]

I would think that the arrow staying inside the deer would cut/slice every step the animal took - and that's a good thing, right ?

I use to think double lunged animals would not, could not, run very far. That KS deer I shot this year stayed on his feet at least 2 minutes maybe 3-4 minutes ... and made it 250 yards and I had placed a 3 blade thunderhead through both lungs.

Note - I shot this buck very close to my stand, about 6 steps from the base of the tree, and I tore down through one lung, high ribs entry, exiting low ribs on opposite site. about 12 feet up in tree. Pieces of lung did clog the exit hole after the first 150 yards to where there was little blood to trail. He died in an open alfalfa bottom/field

In a CRP patch, standing corn, thick low brush, grown up field .... 250 yards of running without an exit hole and blood trail would have been an all day track I imagine.

[Doc Nock]

When we start talking 2 blade and blood trails, it always seems there is a question...and suggestion that 3 blade would be "better?"

Recently, in a conversation with Ron (Sharpster)I commented that in the past 4 or 5 deer kills w/ 2blade heads, I had either heard or seen the deer drop within 100 yards or less, but had ZERO blood trail...

...I also commented I'd read on this site and others in past years, that is the norm of 2 blades.

Ron made a comment and I immediately wrote to Ed Ashby to confirm...and he concurred with Ron.

They both suggested that perhaps... if I'm not getting a good blood trail with a pass through on a 2 blade head...that the head may have "gone in sharp, but come out dull!"

That opens up another whole can of worms...but seems that the 3 questions in the title are all tied together...

Broadhead sharpeness can be a factor in the penetration and the presence, or lack of an exit hole (passthrough) and whether or not there is a good or poor blood trail?!

I had been using a sharpening system that allowed me to get a very shaving sharp head...but it had a radical 20-degree bevel and it apparently dulled cutting through the deer...so that on exit, it wasn't making anywhere near the hemmoragic damage as when it was freshly going in!

Ed had a very technical description I won't murder by trying to restate...

Just that it appears to me that "Exit holes..penetration...and blood trails" are often inter-related and sometimes...sometimes...it's how sharp the bloody broadhead is coming OUT, not going in!    

[BradLantz]

If you're shooting at a very steep angle - and LITTLEBIGMAN both of yours were - just like my KS buck the issue wasn't the killing shot, but the exit hole, being much lower then the entry, filled with lung tissue, flesh etc and I shot mine with a 3 blade Thunderhead. After 75-100 yards there was little blood, and had he not died in an open field my tracking job would have been much longer.

The steepness of the shot matters I think, and maybe more so with a 2 blade but with 3 blades too. My KS buck literally had fist size piece of lung stopping up the exit hole

JMHO

[30coupe]

Good thread. I want holes on both sides. I don't have anywhere near the experience of many here, but double lung shots with exit holes have meant very short, very bloody trails for me. I have used Snuffers and Woodsman broadheads, both very sharp. A broadside, high lung shot with a snuffer left a trail with blood on both sides. It looked like stripes on a highway (4 lane)! About 30 yards!

A quartering on (slightly) mid-high, shot with a WW that entered just behind the shoulder and exited through a rib at about the diaphram low on the chest left a huge exit wound (1-1/2" x 3"). The arrow stayed in for about 30 yards before she broke the 8" with the fletching off. She went another 10 yards and expired. All this took well under 10 seconds (I heard her crash). The blood trail was impressive. Most of the blood was on the low, exit side. Ray Charles could have followed it!

Here is the entrance wound:

 

My battery went dead before I could get pics of the exit wound   :mad:  

Anyway, Wingnut, put me down as a proponent of exit wounds.

I also agree with you on the "imagine the exit side before you shoot" concept. I like the broadside or quartering slightly on (I know this is not popular opinion).

Last year my cousin shot one in the classic quartering away (slight) shot. The WW severed the aorta from the top of the heart. The broadhead hit the off side leg and stuck. There was no blood trail, but she died in sight about 20 yards from the shot.

That's why I'm not wild about the quartering away shot. That and it's awful easy to hit the paunch that way. I think the meat is better if the paunch is intact, and I hunt for meat...not horns.