How sharp is sharp?

[UrsusNil]

I've tried every method I can find to sharpen broadheads, and I can only get them what I feel is "kind of sharp". They will cut the hair on my arm, but not as readily as, say a Muzzy. I've spent quite a bit of time last weekend trying to sharpen Zwickys and Woodsmans, but just can't seem to get them as sharp as a Muzzy. Is it even possible, or does the thinner blade of a Muzzy allow it to get sharper than most fixed blades?

[Ray Hammond]

nope. My grizzlies are sharper than any factory head. Period. I know of many others who have the same results. Sharpening is an art, just like making arrows and building bows.

It must be learned through either trial and error, use of technology, or getting help from others.

[The Gopher]

I've also had issues getting blades to what i would consider "scary sharp". has there ever been a tutorial on this? i understand that practice makes perfect, but having a place to start is very helpful.

Ray, do you use just a file, or progress from file to stones, etc?

thanks,

[Bakes168]

Same problem here, I use a 6" Bastard file and maybe a diamond stick thingy. Every so often I'll get an edge I really like on my Zwickey's or Bear Razorheads, but that's rare.
However, I can get my brothers 2-blade Eclipse heads pretty sharp in a couple minutes with a file. Just a different steel I guess.

Guess I just need a LOT more practice and experience.  :D  

Bakes

[JC]

I can personally testify that Ray's grizzlies are sharper than any factory head I've had (other than a Silver Flame). I am still trying to get my heads as sharp as his. Not blowing smoke, just givin the man his due.

3blade heads on a double cut file then a 600grit diamond stone is the easiest head to get that wicked sharp edge on without much training. Follow Charlie Lamb's tutorial and you will get them as sharp as most any pre-sharpened head. The key is decreasingly light strokes.

Two blades can be made slightly sharper, imho, but only because of the ability to cut a shallower angle...but only through more trial and error or direct instruction when compared to a 3 blade head.

[Molson]

I can also testify to Ray's Griz sharpening skills.  He also is mighty good at teaching.  It only took me about a week to learn it once he showed me what I was missing.

A tip that helped me out a great deal is to color the edge of your head with a marker so you have a visual reference as to whether you are filing evenly or not. Do this and you'll see what your mistakes are pretty quick.  Works on all heads. If you don't get the edge even, you'll never get it sharp.

[Gordon martiniuk]

some folks can sharpen anything allyou need is a good file and some diamond stones try and go slow count the strokes on each side the bigest mistake is pushing too hard nice light strokes go from coarse to fine grit stones good luck

[Charlie Lamb]

Here are links to a couple of tutorials on broadhead sharpening. Hope they help.
 
  Woodsman sharpening

  Tips for file sharpening

[Langhorn]

Hey folks, I would love to throw my two cents in here because I have just put this problem to bed with the help of a old timer that not only hunted traditional his whole life but was a professional tool sharpener for 30+ years. For the Wensels, start shaping on a single cut bastard file. Then progress to a finer diamand stone to shape even further.  I have yet another diamand stone that I use to shape even finer yet(the G5 stone).  The keyword here is SHAPE. Files and diamond stones are only going to shape the broadhead, sometimes this is what people call sharp, but you are far from scary sharp.  The final process involves a synthetic rubber honing strop that is rubbed with a compound called "Yellowstone" or some other type of honing compound. Of course, you pull the broadhead backwards on the strop.  You have now progressed from shaping to polishing.  Shaping is very crude in comparison to polishing.  The tapers on the broadhead will be honed to a mirror finish.  Then, I promise, you will have a broadhead that is as sharp as ony on the market and can go afield with peace of mind.

[Brian Krebs]

(You know; some day someone is going to say something negative about Ray Hammond... if thta day comes -- I think it will be very easy to dismiss that person.)

 I have been known as a person that shoots sharp broadheads; and I get them sharp pretty fast.

 I use a 10 or 12 inch mill b@astard file; and I BUY A NEW ONE FOR EACH DOZEN HEADS I BUY - IF NOT SOONER.

 A new file is part of the secret. It takes longer to get a sharp edge on a blade with a dull file- I cannot stress enough that you need a new file for the results you need.

 I can get my zwickeys sharp after practicing on them in sand in 5 minutes or less - probably average about 2 and a half minutes.

 Now take into consideration I have been sharpening broadheads; and zwickeys at that- for going on 30 years.... but I learned some things beyond repetition: that I can relate.

 Sharp file; mill bast@ard type.

 Consistant angle on both sides of the broadhead. I often will hit one side of the head several times; flip it over and hit the other side of the head.
 But when I am ready- when its getting a consistant angle; I hit one side; flip it over and hit the other - and keep doing that until its shaving scary sharp.

 Keep the same angle. That is a tough challenge; you can use the ferrule of the head as a reference either hitting it slightly; or putting the file on the blade edge and the ferrule; and then raising it just little tiny bit off the ferrule and hitting the blade with a pass of the file--- -all the while watching that the distance off the ferrule is the same.

 I push the file away from the ferrule; with the tang end of the file in my hand. Don't push and pull. You might end up with a tiny overhang of metal; and if you do 'backstrop' it - you can end up with a sharp blade.
 But- but- its only because you made up for having unequal angles on each side of the head.

 If I go longer than five minutes while trying to sharpen a blade; I will break out in a nervous sweat. I think its because I am trying so intensely to keep the angle the same.
 
 Yes it takes some time; and it takes a commitment to 'sharp'. If you cannot get a blade sharp; then give up and try again the next day- but don't ever- ever- ever - go hunting with a blade that you do not have confidence in.

 And the ONLY way I feel you can have confidence in the blade- is to have confidence in it being SHARP.

 When that deer or elk or bear runs off - you really start thinking ( or SHOULD) start thinking- about how sharp that blade was.
 I ALWAYS wonder about it- when helping to track hit animals.... or hearing stories about bloodtrails.

 With a sharp clean head; a non vital hitmay bleed intensly- but it will heal quickly.  Any kind of vital hit with a sharp head- helps the animal find the ground faster.

 I have seen so many times on television shows and in 'real life'- people that take a sharp head; shoot it into a foam target a few times and then go hunting with it... NAY NAY !!

 I resharpen blades after I have been out hunting; sometimes everyday- and while a spray of cooking spray- or some vegetable oil ( or vaseline) on the edge will keep it sharp longer... you want to check and recheck your broadheads for sharpness.

 I have never used the 'marker on the blade' trick; but I would imagine that if you took a magic marker- and covered the sides to the edge with magic marker; you could discover when your angle is not consistant- and that would help.

 Key thing is to not give up; and keep each side of the blade on the same exact angle; hit one side of the blade then the other ( or the angle of the edge will change) and do not hesitate to put it down and come back later. Getting mad at the broadhead and putting a dull head in your hunting quiver is NOT the answer.

 You should be able to shave hair with it; and then - when I do that- I will touch it up a little just to make sure.

 I have used a piece of leather glued tight and flat on a 2x4 - with jewlers rouge on it: as a strop- to make them sharp enough to neuter a gnat on the wing.

 But I can get way way sharper heads: than most are happy with - with just the file.

  Questions? keep asking them; because we all need to share our questions and answers about this subject. It should be the top thing we are all concerned with. It indeed is that important!


 

[Bakes168]

Brian, you should do a sharpen-along thread.
I would really appreciate it if you could go more in depth and finer detail about blade angles and the process of sharpening a blade.

Also, whether you use em or not, could you describ how to sharpen a head with bleeders? I've seen Terry Green's videos, but I want to know more!  :D  

Bakes

[Doc Nock]

Brian wrote:"Keep the same angle. That is a tough challenge; you can use the ferrule of the head as a reference either hitting it slightly; or putting the file on the blade edge and the ferrule; and then raising it just little tiny bit off the ferrule and hitting the blade with a pass of the file--- -all the while watching that the distance off the ferrule is the same."

And that is the rub for those of us who are admittedly, "sharpening impaired/challenged/handicapped!"

I can't get the same angle 2x in a row to save my hide.  Thankfully, there is a lot of things to try...I guess. I've got drawer's full.

Recently, using the KME knife sharpener...that guarantees the same angle and flips the blade over without reclamping it and changing something...I'm starting to get things consistent...and finally sharp.

I will always be impressed by those like Brian who can maintain that angle over and over... and then go through the varied steps to a super sharp head...I'd end up with a very small toothpick if I stuck at it long enough to learn to be consistent.

Thank God for things like the KME system for the rest of us idjuts!  

[UrsusNil]

All very good advice, and a great supplement to the tutorials. I'll try a new file with the WWs and see how that goes. With the Zwickeys, I used a Gatco to shape them to a 19 degree angle then hit them with the Gatco's fine stone at 25 degrees, then stropped on ceramic sticks. Made a big difference, they will now "pop" hairs. I don't think they are quite as sharp as the Muzzys, but very, very close.

[BobCo 1965]

I think the biggest mistake people make with the Grizzly's is setting the angle. There is a lot of material that needs to be removed. I keep going with the file until I get the tiny fold over the entire edge (as thin or thinner then tin foil). Then I move to various emery cloth over glass or hardwood from medium to extra fine (wet). The file takes proably 5 times as long as the emery cloth and wet/dry sandpaper.

[pooahl]

Sorry if I missed this linked above. Here's another vid. I used it just like Dale Karch shows and it works fine for Woodsmans.  I will say that I felt like I needed to really grind into the factory edge to establish my own edge, but the results were great.

 

[BradLantz]

I have yet to discover a way to get a broadhead as sharp as ... say, a Thunderhead of Steel Force.

If you want to know if yours is that sharp, press your finger down on a Thunderhead blade and see what happens, then do that with your sharpened heads.

if I do that, I slice my finger wide open on the Thunderheads, more pressure is needed on the ones I sharpen and if I can tell that difference, then its significant IMO


I've come close, many people will say their heads are sharp but its my belief that they're wrong.

Some guys, like Ray said, have mastered the art and I am not afraid to say I'm one of them. I have some fine sharpened heads with the KME system but still IMO not what a Steel Force out of the box is.

JMO

[Curtiss Cardinal]

The keys to broadheads as sharp as any could want are
Buy a good(high dollar) file and a file card to keep the files teeth clean. When in doubt to a file's sharpness buy a new one.
NEVER apply too much pressure, medium firm to start and ease up and lighten your touch as you go. It may seem counter intuitive; but you can's force an edge. You have to finesse it.
Get the head sharp enough to hunt with with just a file then "guild the lilly" by going to finer and finer grit automotive/metal work sandpaper or diamond hones or water stones. Lastly use jeweler's rouge on the rough side of a leather belt to strop your edge. Remember, each step invovles lighter pressure than the one before. Doing it this way you can get an edge one micron thick, or should that be thin, and you can't get anything sharper than that.
If you are not afraid to touch the edge of your broadheads or knife they aren't sharp enough.
One further step you can take is to strop the edge with the top edge of your car/truck's side window; but that is really more suited to the fianl finish of a knife blade.

[Biggie Hoffman]

I'll disagree with my fat buddy Ray. His heads are sharp, but not sharper than my new standard for SHARP. Sliverflames. Touch one, then after you go get a stiptic pencil to stop the bleeding, compare it to any other edge you've ever seen.
I'm impressed.

[Molson]

I agree with you Biggie that the Silverflames are quite impressive.  The question is, can you duplicate that impressiveness yourself once you stick it in the dirt, or get done practicing with it.  From what I saw, they are not near as easy to resharpen for me as the Griz.  But... I have to touch up my Griz everytime they get wet or they rust.  Not an issue with the Silverflames.  Then again, I'm not going to launch a $30 Silverflame at a squirrel or rabbit either, which I will happily do with a Griz.  It's all a trade off.

[Biggie Hoffman]

I can't. But then again I'm sharpening challenged.
Joey B. can but I question how many times they can be "sharp as new" with the convex blade. I would imagine after you wear off the razor thin edge, it would be too thick to get really sharp.

The bad thing for me is that now, no matter what I do to any head, I don't think it's really sharp :-(