WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try

[Bullfrog 1]

WW, are the easiest head to sharpen IMO and I have sharpened about ALL of them. The "new" ones are a breaze. 8 inch file until it EASILY grabs your nail and then a run it over a diamond steel. Just pushing it over width wise about a dozen light times. It WILL shave hair at this point. I feel NO need to go beyond this.   BILL

[Soilarch]

I'm going to be a nay-sayer here.

In my experience there's only so much that "polishing" the edge can do.  After that you have to change the edge geometry and the KIND of metal.

I don't know what my Kabar knife is on hardness...but it's 1095 and the softest of my knives...it's still surely harder than HRC45...I'd guess mid-50s.  It won't hold an edge worth a lick but it only takes a second get back shaving. I also have S30V, AUS8, VG10, and D2 blades.  The hardest is the D2 at HRC60-61, and the S30V may be there also.  

Now...what am I rambling for?  The original post talked about trying to get a sharper broadhead on EXIT!  So I think we're wasting our time just polishing.  Like I said, in my experience, you have to change edge geometry and edge material to get a difference in performance after 12-20" of hair, hide, flesh, and ribs. Hollow grinding the edge has been mentioned.  I think this the place to start.  The metal on WW will "wear" down a certain amount.  We can't stop that.  But we can thin the material immediately behind the leading edge. This gives us a thinner and "sharper" edge when the BH exits.

"But it wears down faster if it's a thinner edge." (I can here you say that)  And I'd say "Yep, we have to find the happy medium...but I'd guess it's much lower than 60 degrees."

This leaves us with material and hardness.  And we get into really really expensive testing of prototypes. Raise the hardness...but not too much then it'll get brittle, but it won't wear as fast and stay sharper.  Change the material, some "wear" slower than others....even at identical "hardness".   If I was a millionaire I'd love to introduce the world to a laminated BH.  You'd have a hard cutting edge with a stainless and very soft "outside".  You've now got the best of both worlds, edge retention without brittleness.


Sorry for the short book.  Just my ideas.  You'll only get so far by polishing...and then things get really complicated.

[Soilarch]

I've got a habit of explaining problems and then not giving solutions, sorry.

What I would look at is the hollow grind idea somebody mentioned earlier.  Then when "polishing" the edge use 1500 and 2000grit sandpaper on a mousepad.  Finish with strop of leather or computer paper on the mousepad.   Might be worthwhile.  Get a hollow grind blade with a slighly convex edge.  May do better, but will definitely sharpen up even faster than normal on subsequent sharpenings.

[wingnut]

Ok, here we go.  First I took a BH out of my kill box.  This is the head that I took Rojo with.  It was file sharpened and went through 3/4 sheild on entry and 1" sheild on exit.  And a lot of pig in between.

I tested it and it is dull.  You could cut with it but it would take effort.

Here are our tools left to right( DMT Green/Tan, DMT 6 Way, Woodsman, New Bastard File, DMT Blue/Red:

 


So I file sharpened it just like in Charlie's video.
 

Results: sharp in a snaggy way.

[wingnut]

Next I repeated the process of 5 strokes per side, 4, 3, 2, 1, 1 lighter and lighter with the Red.  I noticed the file marks disappear and finer lines forming on the bright edge.  Edge felt sharp but had to work to cut hair.

 

[wingnut]

Repeated the process again with the Green.  Tool marks are lighter by far and the edge cuts hair but doesn't pop.

 

 

[wingnut]

Ok, now on to the ceramic on the 6 in one tool.  We could have used this for all steps as it has a Blue, Red and a ceramic.

The edge really came up and pops hair.

 

I then did the same process with the Tan.  It is very fine and polishs the edge up.  I didn't notice a great deal of difference in sharpness however.

I think I will try the ceramic sharp heads and see how they do.  They sure take the hair off of my arm easier.

Mike

[mooseman76]

Mike, with the DMT stones are you just pushing the stone from back to front of the broadhead?

Mike

[wingnut]

Yep, I'm using them just like the file and following the same sequence as file sharpening.

Mike

[SuperK]

Hey Wingnut, great thread.  Your other thread on bloodtrails was too.  Just for grins and giggles, take another Woodsman and file sharpen it just like you normally do.  Find a buddy that has just taken a deer,hog etc. that will let you shoot it with your broadheads.  Whack it in the ribs with  both of them and see which one comes out the sharpest.  Its been my limited experience with Woodsman broadheads that honed edges shot into a foam broadhead target felt duller than filed ones.  I'd be interested in what you find out.  I only used the red DMT stone for my honed edge.

[paleFace]

I posted this question on another thread going...

***** question??? when sharpening the WW using using the method shown  i noticed that when using the 6" file the cut is across 2 blades.  this causes the cut to be in towards the ferrule on 1 blade and away from it on the other side of the blade.  does this have any effect on sharpness?

[wingnut]

Rob,

I dont believe so.

Mike

[wingnut]

I'll be testing both heads on hogs in January on a hunt.  Hope I can hit what I'm looking at.

Mike

[MikeW]

I pulled the DMT grit chart. As a dealer,

Any Tradgang pricing available on those?
Sent ya a PM.

[Homebru]

Hey Mike,
Just a thought here....others may have mentioned already....your premise is that creating exit holes has to do with how sharp the broadhead is ON THE WAY OUT of an animal.  Thus, you're trying to get a WW as sharp as you can.  However, you admit that the head in question was "dull" after it went through a pig.  Doesn't that call to question whether the head is worthy of staying sharp on the way out regardless of sharpness going in?  

I've killed animals with the WW and I'm happy with them....but again, your premise and statement that this head was dull after penetration seem contradictory.

I'll be happy to learn more from you along the way.
homebru

[wingnut]

Homebru,

This head has been in the box for a few years after it did it's deed and it wasn't cleaned up.  It had it's share of rust and grit on it.  The 'dull" observation was after all that.  I am going to be checking my head sharpness on every critter we take from now on.

I know the two WW I shot my doe with earlier this year were sharp when I checked them.  In fact the chest shot was very sharp.

I'm going to work up a quiver full of the "extreme sharp" heads and use them for a few months.

I'll let you know.

I was pleased with how easy the DMT Diamond stones worked the blade down.

Mike

[calgarychef]

I always drawfile mine, that way I'm not cutting toward and away from opposite edges. Machinists drawfile often if they want more control of the file and if it's appropriate to the shape of the item.

 I'd also venture to say that anyone doing it freehand ie: holding the arrow in one hand and the sharpening device in the other hand won't ever get a really harp edge.  I clamp mine in the vise so there is minimal movememt.  Movement of any kind equates to an edge that will be off "kilter."

[freefeet]

Originally posted by Soilarch:
Now...what am I rambling for?  The original post talked about trying to get a sharper broadhead on EXIT!  So I think we're wasting our time just polishing.  Like I said, in my experience, you have to change edge geometry and edge material to get a difference in performance after 12-20" of hair, hide, flesh, and ribs. Hollow grinding the edge has been mentioned.  I think this the place to start.  The metal on WW will "wear" down a certain amount.  We can't stop that.  But we can thin the material immediately behind the leading edge. This gives us a thinner and "sharper" edge when the BH exits.

"But it wears down faster if it's a thinner edge." (I can here you say that)  And I'd say "Yep, we have to find the happy medium...but I'd guess it's much lower than 60 degrees."

I just received some Woodsmans and my mind came up with some thoughts...

The effective cutting edge on these broadheads is a lot lower than 60 degrees without hollow grinding it.

If you sharpen the head flat it gives you 60 degrees across the blades, but that isn't perpendicular to any blade edge, it's slightly under perpendicular.  Therefore the perpendicular cutting edge on each blade is already under 60 degrees.

But also bear in mind that the edge isn't designed to be cutting perpendicularly it's designed to cut on a 3 in 1 slant therefore the effective cutting edge i would estimate will be somewhere around 20 degrees.

If you hollow grind you will go a lot under 20 degrees and i would guess you could weaken the effective cutting edge by doing so.

[Spike]

Be sure to protect them in quiver adequately from contact with each other and use something to prevent the oxidation of the edges. I use a light coat of chapstick on my BH when placing into a foam hood quiver. Also believe this helps with them becoming less sharp due to contact/motion with foam when shooting other arrows.

[Sharpster]

Freefeet,

The bevel angle(s) on any cutting blade is measured from the center-line of the blade.

A circle is 360 degrees, divided by 3 (blades)= 120 degrees total bevel per blade, divided by 2 bevels per blade = 60 degrees per bevel.

A 3:1 length to width design reduces resistance to pentetration over shorter, wider head designs regardless of the number of blades but, has no effect on the bevel angle. It's still going to be 60 degrees per side unless, it's hollow ground or the blades can be removed and individually beveled lower than that.

Ron