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Author Topic: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try  (Read 1610 times)

Offline Steertalker

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2008, 04:12:00 PM »
The idea is to have a durable aaaand surgically sharp edge.  We've all read Dr. Ashby's reports and his recommendations as to how to achieve those standards.  But just because your BH is dull after it has passed through an animal doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't sharp when it came out the other side or it's not doing it's job to the fullest.....at least in my mind.

I may be wrong on this, but isn't there a consensus that [one] of the standards of sharpness and durability, as far as BH brands, is the German Kinetics Silver Flame?  I believe it is.  That being said......I've NEVER had one remain sharp after the first shot.....NEVER!  When they hit the dirt.....they're dull.  I've never had any BH remain sharp after a shot unless it was still in the animal when I recovered it.

But...what the heck do I know.    :confused:

Brett
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Offline calgarychef

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2008, 04:12:00 PM »
Once you take that wire edge off it'll be even nicer!!

Offline Whip

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #62 on: December 10, 2008, 10:59:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sharpster:
Freefeet,

The bevel angle(s) on any cutting blade is measured from the center-line of the blade.

A circle is 360 degrees, divided by 3 (blades)= 120 degrees total bevel per blade, divided by 2 bevels per blade = 60 degrees per bevel.

I hadn't followed all of this, but the math has got me confused.  If you lay the head on a flat surface and look at it from the end, the 120 degree angle will be where the two blades meet the ferrule.  The angle between the blade and the flat surface would be 30 degrees.  Right?  A triangle has a total of 180 degrees, and the triangle is formed from where each blades touches the flat surface and where they meet at the ferrule.

When referring to a bevel isn't it just the angle of one side of the blade?  Each blade has two bevels, and that would give the total of 60 degrees?
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Offline Homebru

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #63 on: December 10, 2008, 11:18:00 PM »
Hey Whip,
30 + 30 = 60.
You've got the math correct but you're only looking at one of two bevels on the blade.
homebru aka nathan in parker, co

Offline Whip

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #64 on: December 10, 2008, 11:22:00 PM »
So when we refer to the bevel angle on a blade aren't we talking about just one of the bevels, so 30 degrees?  Ron's quote was 60 degrees per bevel, and that's throwing me.  Then again, I am easily confused!  :knothead:
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Offline Kingwouldbe

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #65 on: December 11, 2008, 02:04:00 AM »
Yes whip, it is just the one side.

Offline freefeet

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2008, 02:51:00 AM »
Hi Whip

yeah, 30 per side giving a total edge of 60 degrees.

To be a little geeky...

bear in mind that this 60 degrees is when you sharpen across the blades as recommended but in doing so you're not sharpening perpendicular to the edge because of the slope of the blades - each edge is moving away from the other - this in effect gives the finished total edge less than a 60 degree angle when measured perpendicular to that edge.
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Offline Biggie Hoffman

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2008, 08:37:00 AM »
And Whip was a banker !
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Offline wingnut

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2008, 08:51:00 AM »
and the bevel angle is 30 degrees on each side.  Isn't 30 degree bevel the recommended for durablity.

Mike
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Offline d. ward

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #69 on: December 11, 2008, 08:59:00 AM »
Hey Whip you don't need to know no angle.bowdoc

Offline Bill Carlsen

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #70 on: December 11, 2008, 09:44:00 AM »
This has been an interesting thread...fun and serious at the same time. Most of the discussion on here has been about the WW or the Grizzly heads. For a number of years I used the WW after they came out because they sharpened easily and gave me better penetration than the Snuffers. Then I tried the Muzzy four blade Phantoms. I sharpen them using a Razoredge jig (which I know Charlie Lamb uses on his Mag I's) or one of Sharpster's, and found that after exiting an animal (deer and bear) they were still exceedingly sharp. I also found that even when shot into certain soils, usually soft, wet, bog like soils we have in our swampy areas, they did not seem to loose their edge at all. I assumed it had to do with the fact that they were made with "cutlery grade" stainless steel. I love the way they sharpen up and hold their edge. I have found the same thing to be true  with Razorcaps, real easy to get that popping hair edge and an ability to hold it under the conditions I just described. I have also found that the Razorcaps, for me, have put down animals about twice as fast as any bh I have ever used, which I attribute to the edge I can achieve and the quality of the steel (more bleeding in less time). I guess all I am saying is, as some have suggested, getting a good edge is important but that edge will work better as the quality of the steel improves. Just for the record I use the black (when needed), blue and red DMT stones on my heads. Razorcaps I finish with very light strokes on a ceramic rod and the Phantoms are finished on a leather strop glued to a wooden block.
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Offline Sharpster

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #71 on: December 11, 2008, 11:36:00 AM »
Sorry Whip,

My brain got in the way of my thinking...  :knothead:  

It  is  30 degrees per bevel for a total or "included" angle of 60 degrees.

Should have been one more "divided by two" in my post.

Ron
“We choose to do these things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard” — JFK

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TGMM Family of the Bow

Offline Whip

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #72 on: December 11, 2008, 12:38:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
And Whip was a banker !
"was" being the key word  ;)  

Whew!  Thanks Ron, now I feel better!
  :biglaugh:
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Offline wingnut

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #73 on: December 11, 2008, 12:40:00 PM »
Ron,

Down here we call em 'goes inta's'

You know like 2 'goes inta' 60, 30 times

Mike
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Offline Sharpster

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #74 on: December 11, 2008, 01:27:00 PM »
Yea, I hear ya Mike,

Kinda like when my brain "goes inta" total meltdown from time to time!  :thumbsup:

Ron
“We choose to do these things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard” — JFK

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Offline HornHunter

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #75 on: December 11, 2008, 06:16:00 PM »
after shooting your "flat" sharpened broadheads into a foam block--a dozen times--will they still shave hair?

hollow ground 3 blade broadheads will

how many really good sharp knives are sharpened at 30 degrees?------none

I am more interested in how sharp the head is AFTER it comes out of the animal--
There is room for all of Gods creatures, right next to my mashed potatoes!

Offline Steve O

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #76 on: December 11, 2008, 07:09:00 PM »
Did you ever try running one over the 6" grinder and do the same thing to compare the hollow ground edge?  I think Scott is right.

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #77 on: December 11, 2008, 09:38:00 PM »
Bill,

I recently worked up a few of my Magnus I's on the old Razoredge... that thing is about sharpened away, but still works real well.

I'm gonna get me a KME as soon as the ole budget allows... should be about turkey time before that happens.
  :D
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #78 on: December 11, 2008, 09:41:00 PM »
I run more than a few "flat sharpened" Woodsman's through critters and into the ground. Like Bill Carlson I found them to be adequately sharp unless the ground was rocky... a couple passes on a ceramic hone and they were more than ready to go again.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Offline Slasher

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Re: WW . . how sharp can we get it. .Let's try
« Reply #79 on: December 11, 2008, 11:58:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
And Whip was a banker !
Must not have been an invest banker, cuz those guys know all the angles to use to get more of us folks money... Oh us taxpayers own those investment banks these days... I'll be quiet fer awhile...
Expect the best. Prepare for the worst. Capitalize on what comes.
                                        ~Zig Ziglar~

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