Forgewood shafts.

[MikeW]

Tom,
 http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=61;t=007005

[TomMcDonald]

Thanks all. Allegany looks the goods to me.
Maybe laminated birch would be the way to go.

i just ordered a dozen victorian ash shafts. Anyone here have experience with that hardwood?

Mike I replied to your ad.
I've got some shafts that you might be interested in.

[jrchambers]

i live just down the street from the old forgewood shop and i have been trying to convince a furniture making longbow shooting omish family to pick it up, I belive it is right down their alley.  maybe we will see them again

[TomMcDonald]

Is the machinery steam-powered?

[jrchambers]

I should say they are not omish but menanite, so im prety shure they use any kind of power.

[TomMcDonald]

So what would people recommend for an EFOC-suitable shaft that can come in heavy spine-range but remain smallish diametre? I'm shooting 23%FOC now and wouldn't really like to go down too much. Up is fine.
Oh and toughness is a MUST!

[TomMcDonald]

Originally posted by jrchambers:
I should say they are not omish but menanite, so im prety shure they use any kind of power.

Well, get convincin' it would be a terrible thing to waste.    

[d. ward]

I don't think getting the machinery is the problem.Thats just a matter of money..Getting the POC is.They are not allowing logging of any POC right now.The native americans did let some companies come onto thier land and remove only the stumps and what tree's were already on the ground.The Japanies brokers bought it at auction for a price way higher then anyone could afford to pay for it as arrow matirals.No other wood works as well...bowdoc

[TomMcDonald]

Interesting.
So who's gonna volunteer to plant a POC plantation?

[Shaun]

I was told there was another problem in production of Forgewoods, that the process used formaldehyde which is now considered a serious environmental hazard and tightly controlled.

The owner of the machinery (I investigated when he advertised it for sale) told me the shafts he has are seconds.

I think the AD carbon arrows are good candidates for your HFOC and toughness.

[snag]

The Coquille Tribe is not allowing any stumpage to be removed. The Nat.Forest has ONLY 200 acres of possible POC arrow wood quality trees left! Forget POC as a source for the forgewood shafts. If you look at the cost of the machinery and the likelihood of having to use hemlock or some other "less than desired" wood the forgewood process is a thing of the past... IMHO.

[d. ward]

Well said snag,well said.bowdoc

[snag]

Doc, that was hard for me to give up on that dream! I really wanted to keep alive this part of archery history. But sometimes things just aren't like we would like them to be.

[Forester]

snag - I'm with you on this one.  I followed the same path as you, although I believe you followed it a bit further.  It sounds like we came to the same conlusion.  I wish it weren't so and keep hoping that someone in a better situation than me can make it happen at the right time.....but that time may have passed.

Do you recall seeing the list of "lesser than desired" woods that were actually considered and/or tested in the machinery?

[TomMcDonald]

Thanks guys.
Maybe I'll investigate some local woods that are gonna pack a huge punch.

So is the US gov. doing anything about increasing its POC supplies? Is it a candidate for plantation realistically?

And yes, the AD Hammerheads are looking more and more attractive each day. I just need to get through the few dozen woods I have left and then the Heritage 350s I've just started using.

[d. ward]

I been shooting Sweetlands for a long time and I kind of do not use them as everyday hunting arrows but rather use them on special hunts like bear hunting.I always take the forgewoods along then.They work good for me and the extra weight of the shaft really helps to quiet your bow not to mention the better penatration from the extra weight as well.bd

[TomMcDonald]

Well considering they're NLA I'd think using them on special occasions fitting.
So did people buy several dozens knowing they were going to become extinct?

[aromakr]

Tom:
The real problem is POC only grows in two very small regions of the world. The SW corner of Oregon/ NW corner of California and on the Island of Formosa (Japan). The Japanese have been very smart in this entire venture, they have not touched the wood on Formosa, only used ours and willing to pay way more than us. Yes you could probably do a plantation, however can you wait 200 years to harvest the wood?
Before Bill Sweetland past away he tried to have POC declared "Endangered" and was not successful that would have slowed down the usage and prevented exporting of the wood to Japan. Such is life.
Bob

[snag]

They experimented with sitka spruce, yellow cedar, mtn. hemlock, and Alaskan poplar. The hemlock proved to prove the straightest shafts and best flight characteristics. But POC is still far and away the best for this process. It has that naturally occurring glue (lingdon) that whan compressed under heat makes a bond that is stable.

[stump man]

Lignin:  an amorphous polymer related to cellulose that provides rigidity and together with cellulose forms the woody cell walls of plants and the cementing material between them… Websters.

Lignin comprises about 25% of woods composition (all species not just POC)…Bruce Hoadley, wood products professor, University of Connecticut.  And doctorate of wood technology from Yale.

Sweetlands deciding factor to use POC  for  his process was spine weight to mass weight ratio…Personal conversation with Sweetland himself, 1990 ish.