G. Fred Asbell article

[sagebrush]

I just read the G. Fred Asbell article on what stance to use when hunting. When I first saw the article I discounted it figuring I don't have to worry about that. Then I read the article and started playing with it. I'm glad I did. I think it will improve my skills. I found that, as stated, when you face the target and open your stance it changes things. For one thing my draw decreased some. I had some arrows that were on the edge as far as spine goes. They are a bit heavy. When I opened my stance and my draw length decreased it made the arrows fly bad. I think this is because when your draw is less the bow has less poundage. This will not make a lot of difference most of the time but is another variable to watch for. I usually shoot when practicing with the target stance but no more. When hunting I shoot from all kinds of positions. I will now practice the same way. Thanks G. Fred, Gary

[DannyBows]

I just read that article myself and it got me thinking. I've been shooting trad for a couple years and have never shot with anyone else, so I just assumed a stance that felt good. It turns out it was Fred's Hunting Stance. I wondered why I never had a problem with the string hitting my arm or clothes. Then I watched some video and it explained the Target stance, so thinking I was all messed-up winging it on my own I tried changing to it. Well, my shooting went south on me for awhile til I got used to it, but I couldn't get any of my bows quiet, even ones that were already quiet. Turns out I started Plucking the string, even though I thought I wasn't. I just couldn't feel the back tension as in the Hunter Stance, as Fred states. It came together as I read the article. I can't wait to practice again to compare, plus I have a new to me McCullough on the way! So, another Thanks out to G. Fred.

[b.glass]

Fred has good articles and good advice. His contributions to TBM is worth the price of the whole magazine.

[beachbowhunter]

It hurts my neck watching people hunch, crouch, short draw and snap shoot just to be like Fred.

[deermaster1]

imo, fred asbell is the only person who can actually shoot good like fred asbell.  hunch, crunch, let er rip.  dosnt work for most.

[MikeW]

I bought one of his videos one time and tried to shoot all hunched over like that, didn't work for me either.

Maybe if you shot a few hundred arrows a day,365 days a year you would get good at it.
   

[Whip]

When I read it I had to try it just to see what he was talking about.  And actually, I do see where it can help some of the issues.  It does promote concentration on back tension which is good.  And less problems with the string hitting the sleeve is good.  

I think the biggest benefit is being able to shoot in a wider arc without having to reposition your feet.  With a little practice with a very open stance you can shoot directly in front of you very easily.  At first it seems awkward and would be difficult to pull off that shot without practicing ahead of time.  Swinging to the left (or right for lefthanded shooters)  is relatively easy.  But try swinging out in front of you and things become a bit more difficult.  Practice ahead of time can help expand your effective shooting area.

[Dave Bulla]

Hmmmm, started to type a reply about being no difference in the amount of area you could swing over, just the direction.

Then I went and got my bow and figured I'd play around to see what it felt like and make sure before I typed.

Long story short, with either a closed up stance or an open stance, I can cover 180 degrees of shooting without moving my feet or changing my upper body form regardless of how open or closed my stance is.  Honestly, to me, foot position is (and SHOULD be) nearly irrelevant.  It's all about the upper body and maintaining a solid "T" that does not change regardless of whether I'm shooting to the left, right, inclined or declined.  To my thinking, there should be a "natural" draw position where the upper body is strongest and bone does most of the work over muscle.  Then you use the universal joint like maneuverability of your hips and legs to aim your entire upper body.  Of course, when shooting in the yard or at a range, repeatable accuracy (group shooting) foot position makes things more consistent.

I tend to shoot a less open stance than Asbell shows and it hurts me a little because I have long arms and can pull over 32 inches if I stretch out a little and it's hard to get arrows long enough or spined high enough.  The plus to the open stance would be easier availability of arrows and string clearance but I don't generally have clearance issues anyway.  I CAN change my draw length by a good 3 inches between closed and open stance.  The really open stance feels really strange and seems to require far more muscle effort to draw and anchor than a more normal stance.  Real closed feels very solid but looses some of the fluidity and grace of a more moderate, relaxed stance. Can't say I'd bother trying to change now but maybe in the spring I'll mess around with it a little.  Or maybe not.

For now, I'll stick to what feels natural.  I figure that my natural stance is the most repeatable shot form for ME.

[Whip]

I think you're exactly right about maintaining the upper body position Dave.  I try to keep everything above the hips the same as much as I can.  That's where the twisting and squating come into Fred's description of the stance.  It's about twisting at the hips and keeping the shoulders in line with the arrow as much as you can.

Same concept applies to shooting from a treestand.  If you are shooting down and just dropping your bow arm you will have problems.  By bending at the waist I shoot pretty much the same from up above.

[Brad_Gentry]

I enjoyed the article. I got into archery about 15 years ago, figuring pretty much everything out on my own. I learned to shoot from Fred's books, and have never had much problem in that area. I even gave myself a present a couple years back and went down to his/BlackWidow's shooting school. Had a blast! Real nice guy, and a real good teacher.

Brad

[nutmeg]

Fred has done many good things for the sport . I can't shoot his style and don't want to. Bottom line, take what you need and leave the rest. Find what works for you. Fred is certainly not the end all be all of shooting.But, it got a lot of people reading the article in TBM which is what it's all about.(nut)

[Swamp Pygmy]

I can shoot alright like that, but I'm too short to be losing draw length.

[George D. Stout]

The beauty of any style is that it will work for some...yet it won't work for others.  If it works for you, then you benefited from the article, but Fred's style isn't the only answer for hunting.

I'm a G. Fred Fan and have been for decades, but I can't be consistent with his personal style of shooting.  I can still shoot quickly and accurately in hunting situations, but I've worked on what's best for me over many decades, just as Fred has.  

It's always good to work on your form and consistency, and Fred's method may be the ticket for you.  Just make sure your form is consistent from shot to shot and you should do well.

[deermaster1]

he has done tremendous things for the sport he make TBM an awesome magezine, always writing interesting, and many times helpful, articles.  i am a fan of him because of what he has done for the sport, and respect him greatly

[Rico]

If your not shooting Instictively the way Asbell describes then I can see where it may not work well for you at all.

[George D. Stout]

Rico...mine works great for me partner.  
    Fred's is not the only way by any stretch of the imagination.  Too many dynamics involved in the art of shooting the bow.

[Whip]

I guess I sometimes don't understand all the criticizims of Fred's style.  If you watch the Masters of the Barebow series the biggest thing to come out of those is that there are many many different ways to shoot a bow well.  There is no one single way to do it correctly for everyone.  

Fred's style can certainly work for some.  Some of what he teaches works for me.  Other parts I don't care for.  I don't think following or trying some of the things he has written has made me a bad shooter.  Just take what works for you and use it.  Throw the rest away.

[Rico]

Well good for you George,if you don't want to try anything different ,stick with it. I don't know who's saying anything different.

  Fred will be the first to tell you his is not the only way to shoot a bow at least just about every article I have read of his he seems to go out of the way to stress this.

[George D. Stout]

Rico....I did try several methods over the years. And if you read my posts, you will see I don't say Fred's style is wrong, I just said it isn't for everyone, and doesn't work for me.  I've been shooting bows in one manner or another since the 1950's, so I've had opportunity to try many styles.

 And by the way, I've talked to G. Fred about such things at Denton Hill.  He's a great guy to talk to and has a world of knowledge to pass on.  If you haven't had the opportunity to listen to him, try to find time.

[Dave Bulla]

Ya know, I figure shooting style is a lot like a cooking recipe.  Two cooks can both make say chicken soup but both will favor certain ingredients and methods.  In the end, it still makes soup and those who eat it will often prefer one soup over another.  That's just human nature.  Shooting style is no different.  Do what works eh?