What really is traditional?

[Kingstaken]

Absolutely the equipment , anything else is secondary...
Do compounds shot instinctively qualify as traditional?...No Way!!!

[vermonster13]

If you need to have "Traditional" defined for you by someone else, then you truly don't understand what it is. Time will cure that most likely.

[Arrow4Christ]

Jbiorn,
I shoot what you would consider "modern" equipment. Das, Silvertip, Border bows, carbon arrows, elevated rest/plunger, clicker, and stabilizer (on the Das). If you think it shoots 'like a compound' you are completely off base. My most modern bow, Das Dalaa set up with a clicker and rest/plunger with a stabilizer shoots NOTHING like a compound. In fact, it shoots just like any selfbow. It has no wheels, and that's what defines the compound. Carbon in limbs makes no difference in how the bow functions. Wheels DO. Carbon may enhance the performance, but tell me one old trad archer you admire that didn't seek better performance? Metal risers were before the compound, I even think carbon arrows were. Heck, every device I've mentioned here was around before the compound. Sights are even trad IMO! the point is, none of them change the way my bow is shot, and that is what makes it traditional.

[Arrow4Christ]

"If you need to have "Traditional" defined for you by someone else, then you truly don't understand what it is. Time will cure that most likely."
I couldnt agree more.

[4runr]

What's traditional is seeing this question pop up in a thread a couple times a year..lol..

[-Achilles-]

traditional has to do with the weapon of choice and nothing else...if it has wheels ,cables or letoff then its not traditional...before the compound came along it was just archery...some how we took a backseat

[bgleghorn]

To me traditional archery is IT,. Everything, the people who shoot, it is using your mind an body to shoot, I mean no let off on your bow, no sights, no trigger. I think it is a persons atatude to want to make it as self satifiving as posible.

[Grizz 53]

Well I'm new here guys but I've got to put my two cents in. I think we would all agree that Fred Bear was a traditional shooter without question. So Fred shot aluminum arrows. He shot aluminum arrow because the tech was better. So now we've gotten to the age of carbon. I'm not knocking anyone who want to use a stick and string, but way up on my priority list is a quick human kill for the quarry that I hunt. Still pull the string with a glove.... still have to use the computer in my brain to judge the shot, but I'm not a Fred Bear or a Howard Hill. I need all the help I can get. But I love the attitude of all the guys who shoot traditionl. Thats what makes this site so good.

[LITTLEBIGMAN]

No offense intended, but I dont see how anyone can say a modern longbow (regardless of what materials it is composed of) is the equivlant of a compound. My ACS doesnt reduce the draw wieght at full draw by 80%. I dont have laser or light gathering sight pins on the it and I dont need a four foot stabelizer to make it shoot better. Is its design advanced ? Yes. Is it making hunting with it less of a challenge? No.

[Onestringer]

OK, I am going to weigh in.  I agree with most folks who posted, to me "Traditional" is a way of life, a way of thinking.  I have several friends who shoot wheels, that are "Traditional".  Shooting a stick and Tradition are not mutually exclusive.

Now, how long will this thread go before it gets pulled.

Scott

[Tom Leemans]

I just popped some popcorn. Anybody want any?

[vermonster13]

My little guy is having some right now too. LOL

[Kingstaken]

Achilles...so I guess your saying that a new modern type bow which can have altering divices allowing for better tuning such as the das is traditional?, (Which if I'm correct in it's own advertisement claims it's in another class..and I and many feel it is)   Personaly I see no difference between a das or screaming eagle. Both bows have different technology that crosses the line of traditional.
Now one would make the arguement that if Ishi had the opportunity to shoot carbons he would, I say if Ishi had the choice to shoot a compound bow he would take all the flatbows his tribe had made and burn them for firewood and trade many a buffalo skins for compound bows because they needed the game to survive. They wouldn't have to dress up and cover themselves in Buffalo hides to get close to their game. Most of us here don't need to hunt to survive.
I now I and many I shoot with our "Trad" equipment to keep a part of history, enjoy the romance so to say, the laughs and fun shooting especially the times we missed the shot due to a bent cedar arrow. It also keeps us on our toes makeing us closer to our equipment almost as if it another limb attached to our bodies when shooting. Nothing funnier then to stand behind a  buddy shooting an arrow that makes left hand turn right before the target. Makes the shooter who will get ribbed from all to be more insink with his equipment.
We never have an issue for the use other arrows, as woods pricing as gone thru the roof. Only a few years ago we could buy from Rose City or others a 100 for $100. Now it double that plus.

IBO shoots, they have an only wood shafts and longbow class for a reason and Tradidional is claimed as
"TRADITIONAL CLASSES
        ....In all "traditional" style classes the use of Clickers, draw checks,etc ... shall be  prohibited etc ..."


Griz 53..Carbons make no "quicker" kill on a game then any other heavier "slower" wood shaft.

PS
I promise I will check back here today to see who or should I say how many blast me....LOL

[bjk]

Actually, Jim...if the wood arrow is moving slower, carbon arrows do kill quicker.  If two bows leave a train station traveling at different speeds...etc...

I already stated my case...hunting seasons are WAY too short...this fact lends itself well to people thinking too much about irrelevant topics.

I say bring back the rubics cube...time much better spent...although these threads also lend themselves well to preying easily with silly sarcasm...in that regard, march on.

[Dick in Seattle]

Love it!   I finally got enough pills in me to get some sleep last night.  Woke up and right away checked this thread to see if my prediction would be right... and it was!   A few posts stuck to the attitude/philosophy approach, then the bulk swung right back to "my equimpment is and your epuipment isn't".   Ah, it is so good to be able to count on something in this life....

Obviously, many of you feel strongly about it, but you aren't going to convince each other one way or the other... ever.   How you define traditional is a closely held personal belief or approach, not dissimilar to religion, which is why these "discussions" get so intense.  All I can suggest is that you acknowledge that the other guy's church has it's points, and that he's happy in it, and be happy in yours.   Seems like our time is full of examples of where the "my way is right" approach leads...  Shoot, be happy, and don't worry about how the other guy does it.  Nothing he does with his bow affects where your arrow goes.

Dick

[txcookie]

If you have to ask then maybe its not for you....   Kinda like asking what Honor is if you dont know it we cant teach it.

[Old Ways]

I have to agree with kiiwosewinini that as far as this board goes "without wheels" seems to be the definition. Some here use alot of modern stuff (tree stands, tent blinds, carbon suits, aluminum and carbon arrows, etc) while others hunt more primitive. Doesn't make anyone better than another, just different.

I think this topic comes up from time to time on here because we eventually define for ourselves what "traditional" is but are curious to see how the other "trad" hunters feel. Like we are trying to see who is like us.

In biology we learned to break living things down into their ...family/order/genus/species for clasification. Guess we could do the same here. We are all just different species of the same genus.

I also think kiiwosewinini's Ojibwa friend made a good point in saying "...that you can hunt without all that stuff. When you use it, it makes hunting easier but also becomes a crutch. The more you use the new tech. the more you lose the skills it takes to hunt without it. On another level... fancy gadgets can make an okay hunter have a better chance at hunting, but not using the gadgets will make an okay hunter a better hunter."

[-Achilles-]

King..."so I guess your saying that a new modern type bow which can have altering divices allowing for better tuning such as the das is traditional?,"...metal risers have been around since before the compound as far as I know?...and before the compound it was all called archery...another thing alot of people dont know is that native americans actually attached sticks to there bows for sights

[DesertDude]

Like I said in my first post.  Websters Is the expert in word definitions:  "Tradition"  (traditional)
1 a: an inherited, established, or customary pattern of thought, action, or behavior (as a religious practice or a social custom) b: a belief or story or a body of beliefs or stories relating to the past that are commonly accepted as historical though not verifiable
2: the handing down of information, beliefs, and customs by word of mouth or by example from one generation to another without written instruction

So tell me where does it define the type of Bow and Arrow? It's not about equiptment.  

Mark.....

[Grizz 53]

kingstaken, I totaly agree that carbons do not kill any quicker than a well placed shot with a wooden arrow. But you just illistrated my point. If you take a shot with an arrow and just before it hits the target it makes a hard left or right you may have a wounded animal to deal with. But in your defense I have a feeling you would have already culled that arrow. I do see where you are comming from keeping traditionl archery traditional. But if you get that particular with traditional archery wouldn't you have to take it back to straight stick bows with flint heads and tied fletching? I had a good friend that I met years ago while bow hunting the Hollow Bend game refuge in Ark who was part Cherokee indian. He told me then that his goal was to build his own bow with flint head and tied fletching. It took him years to to get it done. So I guess the point I'm trying to make is just how far back do you have to go for it to qualify as traditional.