Staining Shafts by Submersion?????

[snag]

I was reading an article in the TBM about making arrows. He said he likes to soak his shafts for a few days. This adds weight as well. I have always just rubbed a stain on them and hung them for 24 hrs and went on to crown dipping them. Anyone use the soaking method? He said it adds about 20-30grs. I think I will try it.

[Smallwood]

you do this using "watco" oil. it already has stain in it. i think our ace hardware carries it.
a friend of mine does his shafts this way, they look really nice

[d. ward]

Yap watco or I think there are a couple other brands like foamer hornby's danish oil.I made some notes and will have to look.I know it added nearly as I recall 50-70 grains of weight to my shafts.They soaked for 72 hours in the oil base product.bd

[Orion]

I soak my shafts in Watco oil.  Can generally add about 50 grains to an 11/32 shaft, give or take a little.  If I pressurize the tube with the oil and shafts, they'll gain as much as 200 grains iniitilly, but most of it bleeds back out for the next week or two so I end up with about 50-75 grain gain per shaft, again with 11/32 shafts.  

The soaking works better with the less polished Rose City shafts.  Takes longer for the oil to penetrate the more heavily burnished ACME shafts.  Of course, there aren't many of those around anymore.

After soaking, you do need to give the shafts a couple of weeks for the oil to thoroughly dry.  Not necessary to apply any more sealer over it, but I sometimes do just to add more weight yet.  

I'm sure other oils would work as well as Watco, but it's the only one I've used.  The only disadvantage is that it doesn't come in a lot of colors.  I'm trying something different right now.  I've added a half-pint can of minwax oil based stain in the color I want to natural color Watco oil, which is basically clear.  Can't tell you how it has worked, because they're still soaking.  Will take them out in a couple of days.

[snag]

Seems there are a few of us that do this. I have a supply of ACME shafts and some beautiful Surewood douglas fir shafts that I am going give this a try with.

[d. ward]

I did them I believe 4-6 at a time in one of those plastic dip tube.You have to make sure you keep track of the time or you will not get even weights.keep use posted what you come up with..bd

[snag]

I'm thinking that because different shafts will absorb different amounts of stain I will have to adjust the number of coats of sealer to get the weights even.....?

[d. ward]

This is great,one note I made says note on fir shafts and thats all it says.What kind of nut would not finish his homework gee's ? Anyhow here's something for you to try.Place maybe 4-6 shafts into your dip tube along with your watco danish oil or any oil base product I believe will work..Now while your wife is not home sneek in and get your food saver.You will need the adapater for sealing mason jars.Place a mason jar canning lid and ring on top of your dip tube.The lid will work much better in you fallow the canning instructions by putting the lids into boiling water first to soften the seal on the lids.Now with food saver hooked to dip tube start sucking the air out of your dip tube with the 4-6 shafts inside the tube with the danish.The tube should be almost full to work best and get all the shafts under the danish.You will see bubbles comeing out of the wood.Once the bubbles stop the wood is filled and sealed.Let them set 24 hours even if the seal does not seal on the lid you have still vacuumed sealer right into your shafts pours.Home made autoclave by bowdoc..let me know

[George D. Stout]

Every wood shaft is not identical to the other, and they will absorb at different levels.  You could end up with matched shafts being very unmatched in weight.  When you're done, you will want to check them for total weight again.

[snag]

Bowdoc you are going to get me in trouble with my wife! "Wonder why the canned peaches smell like that stain you use on arrows honey?"       I'd be afraid of sucking some of the stain up in the tube to the sealer! Good idea though.
To adjust the finished weight of arrows I was given this neat trick. When sealing them each time you dip them you add about 8gr. of weight to the shaft. So, if I end up with some shafts that are 15gr. lighter I would just dip them twice more than the heavier ones.

[Orion]

Snag:  The shafts will absorb the oil at slightly differentl rates.  I usually do a lot of them over a couple of months and then group them according to weight and spine.  If you start with similarly spined and weighed arrows, most will take up the oil about the same.

I also tried it with Doug firs.  Doesn't work as well with that wood.  The best I was able to get is an increase of 20 grains with 11/32 shafts, and many of them didn't gain more than 10 grains.  Different wood structure, composition.

I think trying to vacuum the soak tube might result in pulling some of the oil into your dehydrator.  When I add pressure with a hand air pump, some of the oil gets into the air hose.

Good luck.

[snag]

Maybe I better try this on some POC first.

Anytime I take something out of her kitchen I end up in trouble...the vacuum sealer better stay put!

[Teacher_of_the_Arcane]

Hi All,

I used Watco when I was working professionally, and it has a nice side effect.  It polymerizes once it soaks into the wood actually making the wood harder than it was before treatment.  Nice on expensive wood furniture, and should probably give a little extra life to arrows.

[snag]

Good info. I'll try the Watco. Thanks.

[draco]

Soak just the front 6" of the shaft over night and rub on the finish on the rest of the shaft. Doesn't make for uneven shaft weights as bad and really helps with FOC. Pressureing in the tube with Watco just deep enough for front 6" will add even more FOC.

[snag]

Good idea Draco! Why didn't I think of that? lol

[d. ward]

Hey Snag a friend stopped by yesterday who was in on my cheep homemade forgewoods I were tring to make last year.He noted that the fir did absorb a bit faster then the cedar did.Maybe you can keep some notes and let us all know how it works out.Your wife gone to work yet ??? bowdoc

[snag]

I'll do it Bowdoc. I am anxious to try it out. I had a man offer to show me how to taper these with a jig he has...so I'm waiting on getting these tapered before I stain them. Hopefully after the holidays I can get at them. I will weigh each shaft after they are stained.  
Bowdoc how did your experiment go with the homemade forgewoods? Did you use cedar?

[Orion]

Draco:  I can see the potential for quality control problems with just trying to do the ends.  They soak up the oil primarily through osmosis, i.e., along the channels running lengthwise in the wood.  So even dipping them in six inches of oil, they might draw in 8 inches, or 10 or more, or less than 6 inches, depending on how long you leave them in the oil.  Timing becomes critical.

Soaking just the end doesn't really do much for FOC.  Based on my measurements of several hundred shafts over the past few years, soaking 6 inches of the end of the shaft would only add about 15 grains, not enough to affect FOC much

Snag:  Just pulled my shafts out of the tube yesterday after soaking for about six days with a little pressure to start.  After a day of drying, the 5/16 shafts gained an average of 48.5 grains, the tapered 11/32 shafts gained an average of 80 grains.  They don't seem to be bleeding, probably because I didn't use very much pressure in the tube.  That's about 10-20 grains higher than I normally get without pressure.  The fact that I was using fresh oil might also have helped.  

The darker stain (Minwax ebony)I added to the natural Watco oil didn't take real well, but it did darken them some, but not as much as when I use the stain on bare shafts.  

I'll be interested in how your Doug firs react to the oil.  As I mentioned earlier, for me, they picked up almost no oil at all -- only 10-20 grains for 11/32 shafts.

[hickstick]

I remember a few years ago someone experimenting like this with a 'wood hardener' on the first 6  inches of shafts.  the idea was to stop the tendency of woodies break behind the heads.  I don't recall what the eventual results were or if it was here or on the LW.