UPDATE page 2 - Carbon Express Advice Needed to Tweak My Setup

[J-KID]

I was not shooting with the bow vertical.  I'll try that later today and see what happens.  I do have a tendency to torque the string every once in a while but I can usually feel it at release and know what happened.  i was really focusing on good form and hitting the spot with these 20 arrows.

Sounds like the 150's are the correct arrows.  I'll go ahead and order another dozen and set a couple up with feathers and a cap wrap and shoot different weight points from 100 - 250 grains and see which flies best.  I'll then order the weighted brass inserts necessary to bring my 150 grain Woodsman to that total weight.  That sounds like a good plan.

[J-KID]

UPDATE.  Help me interpret what I am seeing.  I'll give you my specs again first.  

"I'm shooting a 62" Tomahawk Longbow, 50# at 28". My draw is 28.5" I'm currently using Carbon Express Heritage 150's cut to 29.5 with 50 grain inserts and 150 grain points. I use 3-5" shield cut feathers left helical. I don't use a cap wrap, but I will on these new arrows. I shoot a tab, split finger."

First, after shooting a lot of arrows, fletched and bare with the above setup I think I see the bare shafts flying better.  Not sure what to think of that.

Second, and this is probably the most valuable info so far, when I draw short my arrows fly better.  What I mean by this is that in an attempt to lower the draw weight of the bow I draw a couple inches short and release.  The arrows fly straight with no sideways kick and I have gotten where I can get them into a three inch circle with a random flier at 20 yards.

So, does this tell me that I've got too much weight up front?  If I replace the 50 grain brass inserts with regular inserts will it improve my arrow flight?  I also want to use wraps on my next arrows so that should also stiffen the spine.  Correct?  I have some regular inserts but I'm not sure how to remove the brass ones installed by *Rivers.

Advice is much appreciated.

[pine nut]

Read this thread through , but I don't rermember if anyone mentioned making sure your knocks are not too tight.  That gave me trouble too.  You probably already adjusted that but just thiught I'd mention it.

[Pat B.]

Jay, I have found that having an arrow saw, to cut the carbon shafts, aids greatly in the tuning process. In fact, without it you are very limited. You should start with your 150's full length or nearly so. Glue in your insert/point of choice and shoot. If you're weak start cutting the shaft 1/4" at a time and shooting..
One of the best shooters on the planet told me to have the bare shafts hitting a few inches right and low of your fletched shaft at 20 yards, this for a right handed shooter. In other words, you want your bare shaft to be showing slightly weak as I understand it.
Finally, go to O.L.'s website and read his disertation on tuning,  www.bowmaker.net  is the address I believe..

[J-KID]

pine nut, I file my nocks down with an emory board so they come of smooth.  I've also tinkered with nock location and brace height.  They are good.  Maybe I'll get an arrow saw and do it that way.

[Toxophilite]

Jay, it sounds like you're really close to being "on" with the 150's at 29.5"/50gr inserts/150gr points (maybe just a tad stiff).
When you add the wraps, you may want to go with 100 gr inserts, cut the new shafts to 30", and stay with the 150 gr points.

Of course, you do realize you're standing on the slippery slope of carbon arrow tuning madness, right?  

[J-KID]

I did order a field point test kit for five bucks with 100-250 grain points.  I'll put a wrap on one of my arrows and run the points through the paces to see if one shoots best.  I should be able to test from 100 grains (plus aluminum insert) all the way up to 300 grains.  I should get them later this week.

[Shawn Leonard]

J-kid, no need to get any other arrows. You are very close. I would think you need to go up to 250 in point weight and you will be on the money. I shoot 29.5" 150s with 175 up front out of several of my recurves all are 52-54#s at my draw of 28.5"s. As said before those Toms are not cut to center, so a bit more weight will get ya ther. The 100 grain brass insert and 150 head will do the trick. Shawn

[J-KID]

Thanks Shawn.  It helps when people give me their actual experiences with similar setups.  I was hoping the arrows were not too weak and with your setup it looks like I should be fine with a little more weight up front.  I'll try the 200 grain points when they come in.  My accuracy is good, just looking for a little more stability in arrow flight.  I'll update with the results.

[J-KID]

To refresh you memory "I'm shooting a 62" Tomahawk Longbow, 50# at 28". My draw is 28.5" I'm currently using Carbon Express Heritage 150's cut to 29.5 with 50 grain inserts and 150 grain points. I use 3-5" shield cut feathers left helical. I don't use a cap wrap, but I will on these new arrows. I shoot a tab, split finger."

UPDATE
Thought I'd give you an UPDATE on my progress.  I have tested point weight from 150 grains (tended to hit left) to 250 grains (tended to hit right) and the 200 grains (50gr. insert + 150gr. point) I was already shooting seems to fly best.  I'm now shooting three arrows.  One 3 fletch, one 3 fletch with wrap and one 4 fletch with wrap.  It's cold outside, but right now it appears that the 4 fletch with wrap is flying best.  It also is giving the best penetration.  So the only change was a wrap and another fletch which might have stiffened the arrow a bit.  Thanks for all your advice.