Arrow Compression Jig - anyone ever used one

[elkshooter]

Hi - I'm getting into making my own arrows and was wondering if anyone has use an arrow compression jig like this one from 3 Rivers?
   3 Rivers

Is it worth the money/time to compress your arrows or is it better to taper them?

Would love to hear ya'lls opinions.

[Orion]

Compressing and tapering yield two different results.  The advantage of compressing is that you can end up with a fairly heavy spine and weight shaft at a smaller diameter.  For example, you can compress a 23/64 shaft, which can usually be found in heavier spine and weight than 11/32 shaft, down to 11/32.  Tapering a shaft the last 10 inches or so on a 23/64 or 11/32 down to 5/16 reduces the shaft's physical weight and may reduce the spine a pound or two as well.  Tapered shafts do recover from paradox a little quicker than parallel shafts though.

[R.W.]

I thought when you compressed a shaft, with the 3Rivers compression block, the spine would be weakened, slightly.?

One of our arrow builders may have some "professional" idea's on this process.

[Doc Nock]

That sure is an interesting tool. It appears that you heat the steel block, then in a drill, spin the shaft and force it through...thus "compressing" it.

I wouldn't be too quick to "assume" that is going to result in the same effect as the bill sweetland process where he steamed the shafts and then compressed them uniformly in some complex mechanical process and equipment.

I can't help but wonder since it's a "push through" process, similar to die forming, if you might not 'elongate' the shaft some vs. truly increasing arrow density??

For $40, guess you "pays yer money adn takes yer chances?"  

[reddogge]

I don't think wood fibers are like metal so they can't be extruded like metal or they'd tear.  They should just compress down and become thinner and denser.

[snag]

This will not result, no reason to even assume, in a Sweetland type shaft. His process involved over 200 degrees and hydraulic pressure over a much longer period of time...with the best results being POC. What this jig does I would think would be better described as "burnishing".
But what this jig may provide is a means of temporarily compressing and straightening a shaft. I would think you would have to seal the shaft soon after this process to have it keep it's shape.

[Orion]

I believe some have reported that the spine decreases a little, but only a couple of pounds.  Though it hardens/burnishes the outside fibers a bit, it doesn't appreciatly increase the strength/durability of the shafts.  

It's definitely not like the Sweetland process.  The compression block only compresses the outer layers of the shaft.  The sweetland process first compressed cedar boards (usually about 5/8 inch on one end and 1 1/4 on the other) down to 3/8 inches.  Then squares were cut out of those and milled to dowels.  The result was a highly compressed shaft through its entire diameter with a built-in high FOC.

[Paul Mattson]

I tried the block a couple of years ago. I either broke the shaft or burnt it.  You need to get the block heated prefect, and have a good spin and even pressure while pushing the shaft through the block.

I tossed mine in my work bench drawer and may give it another try somtime down the road.

[Nate1990]

what exactly is a "sweetland shaft"? what is the differences? What are the advantages of using a compression block like this?

[twoblade]

compressed taperd shafts should be available from keith chastain of wapiti bows.
I think they are made by cedar smith arrows.
I have ordered a lot of them from keith.
I always got good arrows.
The guy who makes them garuntees 100% usage of his shafts.
good luck

[Smallwood]

i don't know firsthand, but heard with this block that you break alot of shafts in the process.

[dino]

Nate,
A sweetland shaft is a true compressed cedar or battleshaft.  In a sweetland the cedar board was compressed at a specific ratio with the point being more compressed so it was harder.  From the compressed board, squares were cut and doweled.   Those shafts are extreme heavy and durable, much more so that the die compressed cedars that are available today which start with a doweled cedar and compress that to a smaller diameter as it is run thru a sizing die.  Two different animals. dino

[Nate1990]

thanks dino!

so those shafts are no longer being produced? does anyone use a similar process to Mr. Sweetland?

[snag]

No.

[Orion]

Nate:  Did you read my two posts?  Sweetland shafts haven't been made since about the 50s.  There was an operation in Alaska (Alaska Frontier Supply, I believe it was called.)that bought Sweetland's machinery and the rights to the process and was producing compressed shafts out of an Alaskan wood, but not POC.  They were also very good shafts, but the business went out of business.  In fact, it's up for sale.

Two-Blade:  Cedarsmith also uses a form of compression block, though more sophisticated than the one sold by Three Rivers.  He makes excellent shafts.  Have been buying them for more than 20 years.

[Nate1990]

sorry orion, i didn't see your post.

thats to bad, those sound like some phenomenal shafts.

[Doc Nock]

I had considered the AFS shafts you speak of Orion.

In canvassing some who'd tried them, in high humidity areas like where i live and points South, what most found was that the "compressed" pine that AFS used, quickly swelled back up to 23/64(?) if they weren't full dipped immediately, and ends coated.

I can't verify that, but trusted teh sources at that time. I didn't bother to try them with those levels of restrictions. I ding and dent too many wood arrows to always worry they'd suck up moisture like a sponge.

The guys who were old enough to know or still have a few of Bill Sweetland's Battle shafts, said that wasn't the case. They were stable the way bill did them...strong, stable, dense and heavy.

Hell, sounds like carbon!   (duck, incoming)
 :rolleyes:    

[snag]

The reason Bill's shafts are stable after compressing was because of the natural substance in POC that, under pressure and heat, would "glue" the compressed fibers together.