Bow Prices/Reasonably Priced Bows...

[Hawkeye]

Two years ago, I sold five of the more modestly-priced bows I had acquired in my first decade of trad archery.  It wasn't because I didn't like them, it was because medical problems had forced to drop 15# in draw weight.  I ended up getting about 80% of the money back that I had spent to purchase them because they were in great shape and bow prices had trended higher.

From the proceeds of the 5 I sold, I bought two bows that had caught my eye and attention... a Morrison Cheyenne and a Sheepeater Obsidian.  Did they cost more? Yep!  Were they a good value for me? Yes, yes, YES!!

Bob spent a lot of time making the grip on my bow exactly what I needed to work with an old injury from a broken thumb.  He was patient, knowledgeable, and built me a special bow that means a lot to me.  I shoot it better than anything I've owned, and I've enjoyed using it to take 4 whitetails this season.  It fits me, I love the performance, and feel my money was very well spent.

This year, I hope to sell another bow I outgrew "backward" to finance about 1/2 of a Shrew.  I'll add my "mad money" budget for the next two years, but I want to try this piece of archery history for myself.  

I know I could shoot a bow and have less money involved, but each of these hold a special importance to me, and I'm willing to save up to make the investment.

I'm thankful for these men, and am glad to have the opportunity to enjoy what their talent and experience has created.

Daryl

[SteveB]

yesterday UPS delivered a LH 50#@28" 58" Chiron Volcano which cost $252 including shipping and was here 6 days after I ordered it.
 

Why aren't we seeing a bow like this in a comparable price range from an AMERICAN COMPANY?!!!!
 

Been answered several times - I for one would never ask a fellow American with the skills and tools needed to build the import you describe for less then minimum wage. JMO.

Steve

[HATCHCHASER]

Mohawk, Kohannah, Holm-made.  

[Otto]

I guess I'd like to know which company the OP was referring to.  I have a strong idea as to which company it is.......

[kurtbel5]

I'm not sure I'd feel any different if I knew who the OP meant.
Change the names and all of the pros/cons are still the same.
Don't want/or afford one brand of bow,no problem, lots to choose from.
           Kurt

[Danny Roberts]

Look up Herwaybow on the net. Kevin Brown is making some unbelievably great shooters !

[bigiron]

why don't one of the custom bowyers build a $5,000 bow? i bet they could sell them. maybe not a lot of em, but some. if you don't believe me just start at the beginning of this post & start reading every one of the responses.

[rxhntr]

I have seen the amount of work that goes into a custom bow. Most of these bows are worth every penny the bowyer gets.

One factor I have not seen posted here yet is Workmans Comp.

If a bowyer is really good and expands and hires an employee, his cost just went through the roof!!!! The cost of Comp for a company that operates power machines is out of this world.

Another thing to consider-----Do those foreign jobies/production bow companies DONATE any of their blood sweat and tears to any worthwile cause. From what I have seen from the BOWYERS on this forum, they are very generous to a good cause and that speaks volumes. They do not make a whole lot and yet they have big hearts when it comes to "giving to the cause".


Ben

[Bob Morrison]

Ben,
Yes there is Workers COmp, and also Social Security any other 6-7% If you have employees.
I think the self employed SS is 13-15% ?

[ratgunner]

Originally posted by Holm-Made:
I'm glad you are happy with your foreign bow.  The reason I can't build you a 250.00 bow has been explained many times in this thread already.  If you haven't figured it out yet then there is no use explaining it to you anymore.  Peace to you and yours,  Chad

He is not asking why YOU cant do it.He is asking why big companies like Bear,Martin and others cant do it.I guess there is no use explaining it to you any more either.    

[NDTerminator]

Originally posted by jojotater:
I believe NDTerminator was refering to an entry level bows from big production companys. I may be wrong, but I don't think he was talking about custom bows. I'm sure if someone was looking for a custom bow, they are willing to pay a reasonable amount for the good crafted work. I think that is a totally different market. Someday I hope to get a custom bow.
 

Pretty close.  Never said anything about custom bowyers, to the contrary, I own my share and gave them props.  But I wasn't referring specifically to entry level bows.

My point is two fold; first it seems unwise to raise bow prices in the current economic climate and secondly, it seems an ideal time for the American companies to make an attempt to match stuff like Samick/Chiron is making i.e., good quality at a reasonable price...

Just to be clear, the company I was originally citing was Great Plains, hardly an individual custom bowyer building em' by hand one at a time to order...

For example, I'm having a tough time seeing the price now being asked for a Martin Mamba compared to the Chiron Volcano(I use this as an example as I've owned a Mamba and am now wringing out the Volcano). I can advise from first hand experience that both are virtually identical in quality & performance (I give the beauty edge to the Chiron as I always would rather see clear glass used on limbs) yet the Martin is by comparison grossly over-priced, bordering on a custom!  Even Martin's "low end" bows like the Rebel and X200 had a price jump and cost far,far more...  

To say the can't do it seems to me disingenuous.  They certainly can, they just aren't choosing to...

[Otto]

NDTerminator

While Bill Foreman may not fall into your definition of an individual custom Bowyer, his websight states it's him, one other full time employee and 1 part time employee that run the operation.  That hardly qualifies as a "mass production" type operation such as Martin or Samick.

I suggest you call Bill Foreman and ask him your questions directly.  Any comments you get in this thread are merely opinions.

Go ask the man himself why he raised his price.

I'd be shocked if it was for any reason different than what Bob Morrison or Brandon Stahl provided.

[NDTerminator]

I figured this would happen if I actually named the outfit for those who couldn't guess.  Who are you, the outfit's lawyer?      

Read back, I didn't ever say "mass production".  However, anyone other than the individual bowyer (i.e. employees) making the bows is by definition production,or
semi-production/production made to order, if you prefer, doesn't mattter to me how many involved.

The bow in question can be ordered in one of two wood/material configurations with no options whatsoever other than draw weight.  That pretty much defines production to me.

Also, it's my understanding there is at least some automation/computer run machinery involved  in their operation. If so that takes them further out of the custom realm....

But enough of this, I'm out on this bit...

[Bob Morrison]

I know Bill from trade shows, personal phone calls and sitting around talking about business. This man works his ass off and he doesn't have all the .50 cents and hour help he can get.Other countries have labor and material at a faction of what it takes here in the good old USA. Maybe you better start hoping Samick or Win Win start sponsoring this and other trad sites or there will be none............ If you want $$300 bows that is where they will come from.......... If you want a good custom bow talk with Bill or any other custom bowyer here in the USA that pay his fed excise taxes and has liability insurance, if they don't pay these 2 items they are not ligit business, buyer beware.........

[bowless]

Why would any company, big or small, use up capacity building low cost bows when the time is better spent building the works of art these guys produce?  Market not cost determines the price and as long as the demand is there stick with the high end.

[defiant]

You get what you pay for.Most bowyers on this site build with PRIDE and pay very close attention to details like perfect glue lines,fadeout transition,proper tillering,sanding lines,no blemish finish,use of exceptional woods.The bow will not leave the shop unless all these variables are perfect.Do you really think a $300 dallar bow from over seas is of this quality just because it throws an arrow? I don't think so.They deserve to make a living too.

[oddan]

I would love to be a Bowyer but can not afford the cut in pay. After being at Bob Morrisons home I can tell you he is not getting rich. These men spend a lot of time EVERY day taking care of buisness.  I don:t think most of them charge enough. Figure out the time and most are proberly making about 10 to 15 bucks an hour. If you can;t afford a new custom there are always used ones for sale.But really why would anyone be so noisey to care about how much they earn. This is America and they are working? If a bowyer made $100,000 a year stands behind is product,gives you what you want and is a good person I say let him make it. Now lets talk about why gas was $4.00 a gallon????

[Gator1]

I have been following this for a while, and can't help but chime in.

Alls I will say, is walk into an Archery shop, look at what is "in stock", then look at all the sponsors here at this site, and all the options I have for a truly custom made bow that fit my budget...

I stand up and salute the folks that have a talent I cannot imagine.  

           

Service is king. I worked for a lighting company that imported products, and if we had a warranty issue... well, there was no warranty... Too Bad So Sad...

I appreciate the bowyers that have chimed in here on this post, and have the utmost respect for you all.

[White Oak]

This is a subject that I have tried to stay away from for a long time. I might wish I had but I'll take my lumps. I bristle every time I hear about someones new Korean made bow.Perhaps it's because I make my living in manufacturing and have seen a good deal of our business go over seas.And yes I am one of those guys who belongs to a union but I don't believe you would find our wages to be rediculous.
This is most definately in support of the small truely custom guys out there regardless of the number of people in your shop. When I look at the work that you guys do it amazes me that you can sell them for the prices you do.My hats off to you guys. Most of you are creating functional pieces of art.
This is also in support of what might be called the bow manufacturers out there. I can  understand why someone might question the price of these bows being comparable with truly custom bows. I can not understand how anyone could believe that an American company would have a snowballs chance of competing with Korea or other developing nations and offering a quality bow at the same price.Even without considering wages and benefits, state and federal regulations, taxes and insurance have already taken our own people out of the race.At minimum wage, we have already lost.
People who are not close to manufacturing may honestly not realize what a disadvantage the American worker is at.
OK go ahead. This is the point where we chuck a few rocks at the unions. Go ahead. Been there before. I can take it.
In the case of our product, we are competing with wages in China of about 19 cents per hour for lower skilled workers and about $1.00 per hour for the most skilled.I won't even get into quality.
A couple of years ago at a local shoot I spoke to a vender about some caps she had laying on her table. They had a catchy phrase and I was interested.I asked where they were made. She explained to me that the caps were made in South Vietnam and gave several reasons why they were superior to the Chinese models.I left without the cap.
Just my oppinion. If I were in the market for a bow and could not afford a new one I would watch the classifieds right here.There are many fantastic deals to be had.
Not buying American made bows from manufacturing companies may have some affect on there pricing over time. My quess is that they will simply have their products made over seas.
Not buying bows from custom bowyers will most likely end their business. I don't believe their profit margins are out of line to begin with.
You custom guys, keep puttin out those works of art.I want to believe that enough people involved in this sport will continue to demand the beauty and quality that only you can supply.
Atleast as long as we have jobs.

            Take care,
                      Ed
         

[gordonf]

I build bows for a hobby and when I look at some of the custom bows out there and how much they sell for I just shake my head. The level of craftsmanship that defines the commerical standard today is simply outstanding. Frankly I don't know how a lot of these custom bowyers can make a profit. My hat if off to these guys. What they do is obviously a labor of love - because they sure can't be making a lot of money doing it.